Vic Police.

[plonky]

Turbo6man, the total focus on speed alone is wrong and I agree with you...

However...

The reason why I advocate HWP cars as being unmarked gets back to the general traffic offences that are harder to detect as opposed to speed enforcement which is much easier.

The reason why "speed" has become such a focus is because of the other offences it incorporates.

If someone is constantly speeding, then they are also constantly committing general traffic offences such as mobile phones, Stop signs, indicators etc.

They are being detected for speeding (due to their incompetence or inattention whilst driving) because it is easier than focusing on the basics of the road rules.

So whilst I disgaree with the car haters at the RTA and the State Govt (in all States) on the focus on speed enforcement, I think that they remain focus on speed for a number of reasons: Firstly, speed is easier to detect and enforce than other traffic offences, Inappropriate speed is a factor in all collisions, by penalising a speeding motorist they are also being penalised for the offences that have been detected and stationary speed cameras are an indiscriminate source of tax.

I really don't have a problem with someone going a bit faster on highways. I do object to drivers speeding in built up areas and towns.

If a driver that regularly speeds on highways but obeys the traffic laws and speed limits in towns and built up areas, I would agree with them about the over reliance/focus on speed enforcement.

If a driver regularly speeds on highways but also speeds in built up areas and towns, as well as fails to indicate, stopping at Stop signs, talks on the mobile etc then this is the driver that HWP in unmarked cars would have a greater chance of catching.

If this type of policy was implemented then a form of "driving meritocracy" is being implemented and I would totally support it!

[Velvet Glove]

There is no 'safe' way to exceed the speed limit by 20-30km/h I'm sorry. Road rules are set for the lowest common denominator. We cant say that so and so is a better driver so they can drive faster etc etc. One set of rules for everyone. If you dont like the rules then the RTA, Government etc are the one's to appeal to.

This argument over speeding is very, VERY tiresome. Lets agree to disagree and get on with life. It ends up being a sledge-fest against coppers, RTA etc etc

[Velvet Glove]

Sorry, and as for people 'thinking twice' before they do anything stupid if there were more unmarked cars please, gimme a bit of credit for 14 years on the job, I think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to traffic law enforcement

[Turbo6man]

Sorry, and as for people 'thinking twice' before they do anything stupid if there were more unmarked cars please, gimme a bit of credit for 14 years on the job, I think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to traffic law enforcement

I'll give you credit, no problem, but first try to enunciate your point, if you have one, clearly, so us mere mortals can understand what you are trying to say.

I can't make any sense at all from this last post of yours ...

[Turbo6man]

The reason why "speed" has become such a focus is because of the other offences it incorporates.

If someone is constantly speeding, then they are also constantly committing general traffic offences such as mobile phones, Stop signs, indicators etc.

This is total BS Grant ... how can you possibly substantiate a generalisation such as that?

I know many professional drivers, including a couple of HWP guys who, like myself, regularly exceed the posted limit of 100 or 110 by up to 30 kph. They, and I, DO NOT commit serial traffic offences such as you have prescribed.

Most of the professional drivers I know actually drive below the general traffic speed in built up areas. VG will no doubt be able to attest to the fact that, in the ACT for instance, the general traffic flow on most of the arterial roads is 20 kph above the posted limit. On these same roads I am being constantly overtaken when I am travelling at onlly 10 kph above the posted limit.

[aniken]

Sorry, and as for people 'thinking twice' before they do anything stupid if there were more unmarked cars please, gimme a bit of credit for 14 years on the job, I think I know what I'm talking about when it comes to traffic law enforcement

I'll give you credit, no problem, but first try to enunciate your point, if you have one, clearly, so us mere mortals can understand what you are trying to say.

I can't make any sense at all from this last post of yours ...

I think you need to read all his posts...

My interpretation is that VG reckons all HWP cars should be unmarked, as this would make everyone behave all the time - you would never know whether the car following you is a police vehicle.

The opposing argument is that this would make bugger all difference - people would behave like idiots regardless of whether HWP cars are marked or not. 14 years of experience leads VG to believe that this argument is crap.

That sum it up velvet glove??

[plonky]

Turbo6man, what I am saying (I probably didn't clearly demonstrate what I was saying) is that if a driver is not interested or refuses to obey GENERAL road rules, then that same driver will ignore speed limits.

I also stated (and this is why I'm not totally speed focused) that good or competent drivers, obey the local speed limits and traffic rules but they may ignore or drive above the posted speed limit on good multi lane highways.

What I have said is not a generalisation. I know from experience that if I stay in town and concentrate on general traffic stuff, then the drivers I'm booking are the ones that commit BOTH general traffic offences and speed offences.

If I was to stay out on the highway the I would be giving tickets to both good drivers who drive faster and drivers who couldn't drive a stick up their own a#se AND who refuse to follow the road rules in town.

Do you understand what I'm getting at?

I do generally stay in town ( I still have a (RIN)radar book from 3 weeks ago whereas I will finish a 50 page TIN(traffic infringements) in three days.

[AMoffat]

Turbo6man, what I am saying...

What I have said is not a generalisation. I know from experience that if I stay in town and concentrate on general traffic stuff, then the drivers I'm booking are the ones that commit BOTH general traffic offences and speed offences.

If I was to stay out on the highway the I would be giving tickets to both good drivers who drive faster and drivers who couldn't drive a stick up their own a#se AND who refuse to follow the road rules in town.

Do you understand what I'm getting at?

Yes I do,

And I agree with you. I have the pleasure of travelling the Pacific Highway every day. Plus extended trips for work. I never speed in 50, 60 or 80 zones. I also obey the other road rules. I don't speed to any extent on the 100 zones between towns either (much) but I will when going west of the divide.

Occassionally you come up against the rat bag element, who really just don't give a flying frig for anyone's safety. Months ago I had a guy tail gate me when I was on the Ducati, this was because I was going to overtake him, until he took it as some sort of personal offence and then speed up waving his arms around and shaking his fist at me. He then overtook me and slowed without using his brakes (no rear lights went on ? handbrake) until he was doing 40 on the highway. Still going off his nut. My gut feeling was pull over this is not the time to play at being the tough bikie.

A few weeks later I see the same guy same car. Leaving the Methadone Clinic. Some people have got nothing to loose.

[Turbo6man]

Thanks aniken, I see now how that could be read in the way you suggest.

I still don't agree with the proposition though for the reason I already stated - people who do stupid and dangerous acts are not pre-meditating those acts - any number of unmarked HWP cars will not cause a non-thinking person to think twice. By definition, it could only be that person's first thought in any case LOL.

plonky> Yes I do understand where you are on this and I see merit in you argument - if only all coppers had the same attitude as yourself. I do know also that it is not just the coppers but the politicians who are driving the HWP in the wrong direction ... concentrating their efforts on the easier prey, the speed, and ignoring the dangerous driving offences that are continually causing collisions and deaths.

And just to clear up a point about my view - I wholeheartedly agree that inappropriate speed is a very dangerous commodity. At times I am driving at 20kph below the posted limit simply because I deem it to be the safe and correct speed at the time and in the prevailing conditions. Any speed above 40 kph has the potential to cause death in a collision. If the politicians were really serious about achieving zero road toll, then speed limiting all private passenger vehicles to 40kph would be the definitive answer. Can see this happening can't we ?!!! Where would they get their taxes from if they gave up speeding fines and saved all those lives?

[xrdreaming]

In the Melbourne Herald Sun this morning, there is an article about there being $26 million dollars in speeding fines in the June quarter of this year.

That would work out to $104 million dollars a year!!!!

Now if only most of that money was put back into better traffic management and policing of our roads.

How many unmarked HWP vehicles would $104 million dollars a year run ?

How many lives would it save if used for road saftey and not government slush funds and super funds?

Put some into school programs about road saftey.

I don't mind paying if I am caught speeding, just use the money to help save lives on our roads. My 2c worth anyway.