A Few Questions About System & Sound Deadening

[boost-kid]

hey guys

iv been reading a lot of the topics in here about different stereos and so on people have done.

I am also looking to put a full system in my car, excluding a headunit, also going for the original and clean look.

iv seen that everyone who has done that has been running line converters to be able to run RCA's to run all the amps n stuff,but the quality is not as clear as a headunit would be?

is the quality difference a noticeable difference,and is running everything through the stand HU a big headache?? (wanting to run 5X7's front,,6X9's rear, 2 amps and sub)

I am also looking to sound proof the entire boot and doors with dynamat or something similar,,with the thickness of it,will the door panels fit back on without problems?

the boot should have no problem as it just the pull out mat.

thanks for the help.

[MiKa]

I was running an LC6, which is a line converter but have just switched to a head unit. IMO the difference is night and day, not all of it has to do with sound quality though. Yes the sound quality is better mainly in my case, I have better and more bass. The main difference is the options a head unit gives you in the form of tuning.. The ICC unit has just the basics but with my alpine head unit, its awsome I can fiddle with all sorts of things and tweak it however I see fit. Also I can now play mp3's and connect my ipod which now lives in my glove box and I control it through the headunit.

Its not a pain running everything through a line converter, but get a good one. I tried a cheap $50 alpine one which was poo. Read good reviews on the forum about the LC6 so I got one of them. I paid $240 which did a good job. There are better ones of course, for example Alpine have one for around $800, and after speaking to the guy about it its ment to be the best out..

I too wanted to keep the standard look of my interior, but the way my head unit is installed, it doesnt look out of place IMO.

I dunno about the sound deadening but I wanna be doing some aswell, so I look foward to reading someone who knows' answer..

Heres a link to the thread I started, its got pics and a bit of info too, if you wanna head down the head unit path.. http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=53255

Cheers Mike

[smicky]

boost kid.... Mika is right...

Installing a HU will generally give you more flexibility to that of running a system from your ICC.... Having said that any system is only as good as its weakest link/component...

I'm just about to head out so not much time to reply... I will post something a little more in detail later on...

But having said this, running for your ICC is not going to cause any 'real' noticeable difference if your systems includes good line converters, amps and components. You can use such products as a RF360 as well to better tune the sound environment which will help and have a massive advantage.

Really just depends how much you want to spend, what you are looking for and what you want the system to be able to do!

You can get other add on boxes which will let you control things like you ipod (not directly via your ICC however other remote control devices)... As you can with tuning - Eq, tone levels etc... But at the end of the day its up to you and what you want out of the system!

If you planning on replacing your fronts - use a set of splits 6" mid/bass with a tweeter in the windscreen pillar or the likes... assuming you have a B series as you have not mentioned a FG, the rears are in the parcel shelf... as such 5x7".... as you are wanting to run 2z subs, assuming they will be of reasonable quality there is no need to buy 6x9's, easy solution would be to just wack in some cheap 5x7" into the factory location...

As I always say, depending on what you want out of the system, rears speakers - just stick to something of mid level pricing, spending HEAPS on rears is a waste of time, as they are 'normally' only going to be heard as back fill speakers... remember when you listen to music at home or at a concert is it in front of you. and your in the front of the car... save the money and get BETTER FRONTS!!!

As for 2x subs... again really depends on what you want from the system, however like the rears, if you save some money on buying just one sub of better quality and spec rather then 2x mid lever subs, you will find the sound quality is going to be far better then 2x average subs... (in most applications)... Remember make sure the box is tuned to that sub/driver, and not just some random 15lt box from trashfield... will make a huge difference...

Make sure you match your speakers and amps correctly to the load (ohm) and power (RMS watts) this is very important as well... will extend the life of your gear!!!

Sound proofing - dynamat is great stuff... but not cheap in the sense of speaking...

have a look around and a few of the members have used some stuff from such places as bunnings. cheaper and almost just as good!

Hope this helps!

[boost-kid]

thanks for the help guys

yep I have a BA

going by your replies it seems running a headunit is probably the better option, still going to think about both options though.

smicky, im wanting to run only 1 sub,not sure where you got 2 from,and yeah im not looking to buy some cheap crappy equipment, id like to go with the better brands as you really do get your moneys worth and quality.

really what I want out of my system is for it to be clear, loud and have very good bass.

I was thinking of running better 5x7's in the front and 6x9's in the rear with spacers so they can fit,,but you made a good point about concentrating more on the front as that's what I will be listening to.

will upgraded 5x7's sound better than the 6x9's in the rear?? and will they be as loud and clear?

and also,,when looking at subs and amps,,what is the difference between the rms and rms peak? and what should I be looking at??

example (an alpine Type-X 12") :

Power Handling

* Power Handling (RMS/peak): 1000W/3000W

* Power Range (RMS): 500W-1000W

[PHANTMXR6]

RMS is what you need to pay attention to.

Peak power and things like PMPO are a load of crap.

[MiKa]

will upgraded 5x7's sound better than the 6x9's in the rear?? and will they be as loud and clear?

and also,,when looking at subs and amps,,what is the difference between the rms and rms peak? and what should I be looking at??

IMO you wouldnt notice the difference in loudness, that depends on the speakers (how powerfull) If your amping them than they should be clear no matter the size, but yeah get 5x7's because they are a straight swap so in the end will be cheaper..

I always look at RMS and match the amps, subs etc..

[smicky]

OK not to sure if this will work, but as im tied form playing around at the golf driving range, im going to try and cheat here...

Sorry mods if this not liked...

thanks for the help guys

yep I have a BA

going by your replies it seems running a headunit is probably the better option, still going to think about both options though.

Just depends mate, if you just want a 'good/great' system and not going nuts then the ICC with good line converter box will do the trick!

Im looking at a full Focal install (with some add ones) once I get off my butt to buy the gear then put it in, ill be running everything from the ICC - well over 10K of gear... So again either will work great if all installed correctly... (dont mean mika didnt do so, just mean better line converters and boxes like the RF 360 etc...)

smicky, im wanting to run only 1 sub,not sure where you got 2 from,and yeah im not looking to buy some cheap crappy equipment, id like to go with the better brands as you really do get your moneys worth and quality.

Sorry I was in a hurry and read it as a couple of sub, when in fact you wrote a couple of amps... My bad!

and getting your moneys worth, yes with most brands and products you should!

really what I want out of my system is for it to be clear, loud and have very good bass.

hehee, what we all want... but how loud is loud? clear is generally easy (dont over drive your gear and match correctly), and good bass - good sub/box design and construction/ and good CLEAN power from your amp!

I was thinking of running better 5x7's in the front and 6x9's in the rear with spacers so they can fit,,but you made a good point about concentrating more on the front as that's what I will be listening to.

will upgraded 5x7's sound better than the 6x9's in the rear?? and will they be as loud and clear?

The BA's already have 5x7's so stick to 5x7's just something a little better, easy upgrade as they 'should' slot right in!

You could also use a 6" 2 or 3 way coax speaker, which will be fine as well... Generally the only reason 'I' recommend 6x9's is in cases where a bus is not used... hence 6x9's have a larger cone space and are generally designed to therefore produce more bass then equal 6" - if that makes sense... as you will have a sub the bass advantage of a 6x9 over a 5x7 or 6" is irrelevant (generally speaking)...

and also,,when looking at subs and amps,,what is the difference between the rms and rms peak? and what should I be looking at??

Without getting technical and talking about power levels, distortion etc, RMS as PHANTMR6 has said is all you need to focus on...

PMPO is another standard of power rating however is generally used to give a sense that a amp or speaker has a far greater ability then is really does when running under 'normal' conditions...

PEAK as below - would generally indicate the peak points on the tested wave form and frequency when the component was tested...

Make sense?

When it has a range like 500-1000 is generally means the power range which is required to have the component in question working at its 'happiest'!

Kinda like our cars can run on 91oct and 100 oct, however are designed to run on 95 or 98 oct...

make sense?

So match RMS with RMS... and remember a bigger amp power driving your speakers will give clean power, rather then big speakers and little amp that cant drive them the way they want...

It would be like a 1.6 lt engine in a Kenworth truck... It might get it moving eventually, but its most likely to rip the sh*t out of the 1.6... put a big arsed 1200 HP or what ever they use in trucks now, and its going to work just the way it was meant to...

example (an alpine Type-X 12") :

Power Handling

* Power Handling (RMS/peak): 1000W/3000W

* Power Range (RMS): 500W-1000W

Hope this explains what your after?

Edited 18/01/09 09:16 AM by smicky

[Ghia]

I am also looking to sound proof the entire boot and doors with dynamat or something similar,,with the thickness of it,will the door panels fit back on without problems?

the boot should have no problem as it just the pull out mat.

thanks for the help.

Most of your other questions have been discussed so I'll add my 2c on sound deadening.

I've used Dynamat Extreme on my BA. I've used it on the door trims (section against the interior door and inside of the external door skin), boot floor and boot lid.

All trim pieces have fitted back on with no problems.

It makes quite a decent difference and I'd suggest that if you are thinking of doing it its definately worth doing the job properly - for the result its money well spent.

[boost-kid]

smicky, thanks alot you have helped me out stacks and answered what iv needed to know

im thinking to just go for a headunit now,although wanting to keep the clean look and run everything nice and neat through factory stuff,,I might aswell throw a couple hundred ontop of what a GOOD line converter would cost and get a headunit.

just another thing, when installing a headunit into the tissue box holder,,does it require alot of cutting? and im pretty sure the controls on the steering wheel are lost when using a HU?

ghia, I was thinking of doing the same areas you have covered, glad to hear it does make a big difference. was it difficult to do? (inside the doors etc)

and for the boot lid,did you create a trim piece as there is no trim covering the boot lid?? (in mine anyway)

do you have any photos?

im presuming you purchased the dynamat trunk kit, was it plenty to cover everything you needed?

thanks stacks boys for the help.

[smicky]

Mate - the tissue box holder will fit the HU without any cutting... should fit perfectly (depending on the depth however.) Just depends how you want the finished end look...

Pioneer, Alpine and Clarion are all nice head units and worth a look...

Audison, Focal, Pioneer, Clarion, Boston, JL, MB and Rockfort are all worth a look in the Amp stakes...

Subs - JL, Boston, Focal, Rockfort and MB all good as well..

And speakers alike as above... Also Dynaudio, Hertz, Morel, Polk, Seas, Eaton, Infinity....

Check out some websites like ryda.com.au / www.fhrxstudios.com as a starting point...

These are just a few brands to take a look at, however not the only ones! So remember listen to a lot of gear, take your own CD's, and make sure all the tone levels on the demo gear are set to flat... This will give you a good idea of what the 'real' sound from that gear will give you... and remember it WILL sound louder in the car!

Sound profing... put it everywhere on all panels you can