Pop Goes The Engine (@ 348rwkw)

[straughsberry]

Too bad mate. I bent a couple too and ended up with a phoon bottom end but fitted valve springs and billet oil pump gears while I was there. You may be able to get the motor cheaper than $2500. I got mine for $2250 and may still be able to get that price. PM me if you are interested and I will make a call. A phoon bottom end should hold 400rwkw with a "safe" tune. I'm running 18psi and 350rwkw and drive it like it should be. But my tune does not come on super hard and is "safe" thanks to a tuner who is conservative and doesn't put too much emphasis on numbers.

As the others say, if money is not an issue and you can get a forged motor for close to the phoon bottom end, why wouldn't go forged?

Edited 14/07/08 03:28 PM by straughsberry

[HI PSI]

Pm sent mate !!

[RDCULS]

Thanks VF much for the imput fells!

Think I need to do some more soul searching to decide if I'll want more power in the future (um, yes, probably will).

Simon from Nizpro called me back with some interesting views on buying forged bottom end only. Was a very detailed conversation (what a champion) wont go into details (& don't believe in chinese whispers)... Left me thinking either full built long motor or F6 bottom end.

Interesting to see NO bottom end failures for ford fat-rod motors so far....must be fairly tough (may be worth me looking into FG F6 bottom end with strengthened piston design, IF I go that way).

Thanks for offer Straughsberry, very kind, would save me about $500 from price quoted from local dealer (may be intouch soon).

__________________

Car was running on V-power (allways except when it was out those few months back...then was BP ultimate).

Was tuned by a forum sponsor (various custom retunes over last 12months beacuse few mods done seperately. Only ran generic tune when no mods).

Has following mods:

Bosch 968 injectors < not leaning (10.2 afr....maybe too rich???dont know that stuff really)

Process west surge tank w/ Bosh 044

Plazmaman piping: from cold side of monza cooler (considering replacing) to throttle body.

Plazmaman air box where battery was & K&N pod (deleted crossover)

Atomic valve springs

Enlarged waste gate w/ bigger swing valve flap

12psi Actuator

Xforce 4"dump pipe to 2 x 2.5" to quad rears

Heres where it gets a little interesting, boost peaked at 19psi & dropped to 17psi....as when my turbo was replaced under warranty a few weeks ago (which suprised me....shame they wouldn't cover the engine though), Ford had fiddled with the actuator (so boost couldn't be dropped any further). By the time dyno run/tune was done, car was too hot to be worked on & I had to drive home 2hrs. Then I got addicted to the extra boost and didn't take it back to be rectified!

Kinda hoped it wouldn't go KABOOM....(but also kinda knew it would). So no prizes for guessing why!

Still, if there are no known F6 bottom end failures, sounds to me like it's up to the task...

(2nd post was a horse huh??)

[straughsberry]

I just made some inquiries and things have changed. Ford now wants $3000 for them and there aren't many around at all. It seems Ford are holding on to them for warranty work. I can get one atm for around $2800, but I dont know for how long.

[Headsex]

Heres where it gets a little interesting, boost peaked at 19psi & dropped to 17psi....as when my turbo was replaced under warranty a few weeks ago (which suprised me....shame they wouldn't cover the engine though), Ford had fiddled with the actuator (so boost couldn't be dropped any further). By the time dyno run/tune was done, car was too hot to be worked on & I had to drive home 2hrs. Then I got addicted to the extra boost and didn't take it back to be rectified!

Kinda hoped it wouldn't go KABOOM....(but also kinda knew it would). So no prizes for guessing why!

Dare say your right on this.. The increased boost would have most likely made it ping.. causing the failure you now have

[RAP1D]

Yeah detonaion through the midrange puts a huge stress on the rods, more so that up high in the revs with more boost.

There's alot of contributing factors that can cause detonation, so to be safe, everything must be spot on.

Fuel - AFR and octane rating

Timing - too much is bad

Cooling - hot intake temps are very bad

Boost -

You should always keep an eye on the boost gauge, and an accurate one at that.

I always avoid bringing up high boost in the 2500 rpm range on the freeway/open road... this is a huge load on the rods and can eaily bend them, or just stress them.

With most tunes and free flowing intake & exhaust systems, its very easy, and temping, the bring boost on in 4th 5th 6th gears while doing 100kays... we've all done it and though " sweet, 15psi at 2200 rpm, that's impresive"

Sure its impresive, but the massive strain on the motor is greatly shortening its life... do this a few times, then later on give it some boost on low throttle in 3rd and bang, the bent/stressed out rod just gave up... Poeple usualy wonder why? I was only giving it 1/2 throttle, and it only reved to 4000... that's all it took to finish them off.

There's loads of BA's with 340wkws, heaps, not just a few, but alot. All driving safely and not detonating and breaking rods.

It all comes down to tuning, fuel and cooling.

Alot of guys will remember when 300wkws was the max... cars were tuned with massive midrange power, rods were busting left, right and centre... good thing things have changed, and knowledge has increased.

[Venom XR Turbo]

Can anyone please post a picture of what a 'conservative' tune dyno graph curve looks like? I would imagine the more linear the safer on internals?

Venom

Edited 05/09/08 11:14 PM by Venom XR Turbo

[senna_T]

Yes mate, something that has a gradual boost and or power curve. If your graph looks like a rollercoaster, this will be harder on your engine

[RAP1D]

A conservative tune, so to speak, will generally have less advance timing in it, and wont show up on a dyno graph.

It can have richer mixtures, that can be seen on the graph and less boost peak in the midrange, but you'll never really be able to look at a graph and say "yes its conservative"

You really just have to trust the person tuning the car, as they should know from various indiucations the motor is giving them, wether its safe or not.

Some motors just go bang, others live on hard.

Get to know your car, know how it sounds on full power, know how it sounds & feels with good 98 fuel and how it feels with lesser fuel.

Know how it sounds when it detonates, know when its not right, when its hot and timing is being pulled out.

If your clueless while you drive hard, then your motor is on its own.

[bcl]

I've had Jim push my stock F6 motor hard recently, and I don't think anyone has pulled a 132mph pass on pump fuel.

Well tuned, and with reliable fuel supply, it should be fine.

However, there is no guarantee, so if you play be prepared to pay, as the saying goes.

However it won't be pushed any harder until I do a rebuild.

With that 100 ron no longer available, and now with a tank of 98 I'm taking it very easy until a retune, to the point where I've done 520km so far on my current tank in city driving.

If you ever have any doubt about the fuel in your car it's just not worth the risk pushing it if you are in doubt.

Brian