500hp Cars And Teenagers.. Interesting Story From An M5 Forum...

[sixfan]

Nah....you just said those two simple words that got my back up Thought maybe you'd been brainwashed, so I do apologise for thinking less of you!

As for PB maybe stupid is not the word; but basically he f*cked up and wasn't driving to suit the conditions. He avoids the stupid moniker just because he's a champ

How are the CLOSED speed limits going fourfan? It’s cruel to laugh but after all those years of torment......

R-SPEC, so we agree, speed makes the effects of driver error worse (in essence it's driver error to be driving faster than capability / conditions allow.)

I now attend Hidden Valley regularly and have even more fun as I'm not just going fast, but pushing the car and myself in an appropriate environment.

1:27.5 seconds last run, I think I can get to 1:26 tomorrow, if it isn't too rainy.

Pity there are no XR6T's there to play with..........

[Slymeat]

The problem with this debate is that there are many different factors, speed, ability, vehicle condition, weather conditions, unexpected anomalies, road conditions ability and state of other vehicles using the road etc etc etc. We are only hearing the side of the people who have done something stupid and have survived because the other people are DEAD or worse ( ie comatose or vegetative ) and they don't look at this forum nor reply to it for some reason. If you could ask the driver of the M5 what he might have done different that night I bet he would say he would have slowed down now knowing the cosequences. Speed does not kill in all incidents but id does in some I point to situations were people loose control because of there speed, V8 supercar drivers crash all the time when driving 9/10's or more they only don't die regularily because of the safety devices incorperated into there cars, if normal people drive the same way in there sh*tty cars they would crash and they would die, you can't say that speed is not a factor because it is obvious. A common problem in family cars is when they exceed the maximum speed of a corner as dictated by physics this causes them to yaw ( this happens at a defined speed which can be calculated by mathematical equation)and cross onto the incorrect side of the road any subsequent crash would be caused by speed, although it may include other factors ie- cause and effect. Even though speed cannot be proved in many crash's dosn't mean it is not an ovious factor. Speed is a factor in road fatalities that cannot be denied. Why do we have speed limits and anti speeding campaigns because people are inherantly stupid so the powers that be must find a compramise between good/bad drivers, good/bad cars etc etc and then set strict guidlines without grey areas for Joe Shmo to follow. I am neither pro or anti to the current speed laws but I know that if people were not regulated there would be whole lot less of us around now. These are just some examples but if you drive down my street at high speed and my children are hurt you will find that speed does kill.

[seventytwo]

R-SPEC, so we agree, speed makes the effects of driver error worse (in essence it's driver error to be driving faster than capability / conditions allow.)

I now attend Hidden Valley regularly and have even more fun as I'm not just going fast, but pushing the car and myself in an appropriate environment.

1:27.5 seconds last run, I think I can get to 1:26 tomorrow, if it isn't too rainy.

Pity there are no XR6T's there to play with..........

Tell me a bout it

[Craig.]

I was just tryna say that people don't die from doing burnouts or doughnuts or dragging their cars to 60 or 80kph, they die when they excessively speed and don't know how to control their vehicle, or they do it in the wrong surroundings.

Mate this is just plain wrong. You can die in a car at 60 or 80kph. Try hitting a pole at these speeds. Whats more most deaths occur at legal speeds every day. In fact only something like 2% of deaths can be directly attributed to excessive speed like the young fella in his dads Beemer.

The majority of fatalities that happen every year actually happen on country roads and are due to driver error or fatigue. The driver error can be taken out of this somewhat by actually training people to drive when they go for a licence how to control a car (rather than how to pass a road test based on your knowledge of parking a vehicle and the road rules).

Our national road system is also a discrace ( it is akin to a 3rd world country in some parts) and improving it would also save lives. How? By having all major highways as dual carriageways with barricading on both sides of the roads as well as something that is impenetrable up the centre so that drivers don't take uneccesary risks while overtaking and so that they cant veer in front of oncoming traffic or off the side of the road and into a tree when they fall a sleep.

Of course the government doesn't want to hear this. It costs too much to fix the roads and put in place a licencing system that actually trains you to control a car. They are much better off spending that money on speed cameras and then raking in the speed taxes that they have in place.

So they have instead decided to put the blame back onto us as individuals with the Speed Kills Campaign.

Edited 01/03/08 09:25 AM by craiginmackay

[Slymeat]

Craig our biggest problem with speed related deaths are that they are not reported as such in fact it is in rare situations were the speed can actualy be calculated as certain condition must exsist to measure a speed from what is left behind. That said to experienced people at the scene it is obvious that speed is a factor it's just that it cannot be exactly calculated. When the peron that is at fault is dead then specialist investigators are not even called in to measure the speed because it serves no purpose although it would dramaticly change the statistics. Speed is a factor in fatalities and it allways will be. Hit that same pole at 150 km/hr and the chances of death have risen dramaticaly.

[sixfan]

The problem with this debate is that there are many different factors, speed, ability, vehicle condition, weather conditions, unexpected anomalies, road conditions ability and state of other vehicles using the road etc etc etc. We are only hearing the side of the people who have done something stupid and have survived because the other people are DEAD or worse ( ie comatose or vegetative ) and they don't look at this forum nor reply to it for some reason. If you could ask the driver of the M5 what he might have done different that night I bet he would say he would have slowed down now knowing the cosequences. Speed does not kill in all incidents but id does in some I point to situations were people loose control because of there speed, V8 supercar drivers crash all the time when driving 9/10's or more they only don't die regularily because of the safety devices incorperated into there cars, if normal people drive the same way in there sh*tty cars they would crash and they would die, you can't say that speed is not a factor because it is obvious. A common problem in family cars is when they exceed the maximum speed of a corner as dictated by physics this causes them to yaw ( this happens at a defined speed which can be calculated by mathematical equation)and cross onto the incorrect side of the road any subsequent crash would be caused by speed, although it may include other factors ie- cause and effect. Even though speed cannot be proved in many crash's dosn't mean it is not an ovious factor. Speed is a factor in road fatalities that cannot be denied. Why do we have speed limits and anti speeding campaigns because people are inherantly stupid so the powers that be must find a compramise between good/bad drivers, good/bad cars etc etc and then set strict guidlines without grey areas for Joe Shmo to follow. I am neither pro or anti to the current speed laws but I know that if people were not regulated there would be whole lot less of us around now. These are just some examples but if you drive down my street at high speed and my children are hurt you will find that speed does kill.

I agree with almost everything you said, I would however add:

Better driver training and people aware of their limits and the limits of their vehicles and road conditions is a better solution than a media swamp-campaign aimed at convincing people who get fined for going 5 kph over the limit not to raise merry hell about the injustice of the current revenue generation directed system.

Why are the police allowed to exceed the posted limit in the execution of their duties?

Because they're better trained and capable of doing so safely.

Why not have a public better trained?

yep I agree there is a certain percentage of the population that IS inherently stupid, lets identify them and stop them from holding a driver's license.

I bet if old mate in the M5 lived to 30, he would have gone nearly as fast and started braking earlier.

That is, assuming he'd learned by then that alcohol and cars don't mix....

now, if you are accusing as being one of those people who "have done something stupid" you can stick it where the sun-don't-shine, I wasn't breaking any law and had police go past me in BOTH directions.

usually accompanied by a cheerie wave.

P.S since the new 130 kph law has come in, I've been good and not been booked, Just because I disagree with a law, I realize I do not have the right to break it.

[our06t]

a kid I went to school with decided to steal the keys of his dads heavily modded R34 GTR and took a mate and his pregnant girlfriend for a joy ride. He hit a slight dip in the road at high speed and hit a pole. all three people died and the car was unrecognisable. this was one of a few accidents that prompted the laws of L and P platers driving high powered cars.

power + inexperiance dont mix

was that the one in wyoming where you from

[tab]

Why are the police allowed to exceed the posted limit in the execution of their duties?

Because they're better trained and capable of doing so safely.

Why not have a public better trained?

Superb point.

If “speed kills” then one would assume that government departments with all of their OH&S guidelines would never allow an employee to exceed the posted speed limit. Never.

…or an Ambo travelling with full bells and whistles to attend a car accident, seems ironic that they can exceed the speed limit as well. Yes the lights and sirens make it safer, but that kind of disproves the “speed kills always” crap again.

Yes I agree we need posted speed limits as most of the population can’t think for themselves and ascertain what a safe speed is; these same idiots that will sit exactly on the speed limit even when conditions dictate that that speed is not in fact safe.

And like you said Sly, there are always many factors. Funny thing is we never hear about these (other than the occasional wear-your-seatbelt crusade) in advertising campaigns or blitzes.

Better education should be the utmost priority. Even if our respective governments want to remain tightarses and not spend extra on roads, at least teach motorists how to figure out a safe speed to travel at on the crap roads.

[Superdan]

Why not have a public better trained?

100% agree, why not make it law for new drivers to attend DriveSafe training before giving them their licence!!?

[Craig.]

Speed is a factor in fatalities and it allways will be.

The fact that you are moving is a contributing factor. It is only 1 of many though. To aportion blame to speed is oversimplifying the problem at hand. The fac tthat the road toll remains pretty constant despite the crackdown on speed is testimony to the fact that the Speed Kills campaing is just not working.

Death happens on the road because of the human element. Whether it is taking a corner faster than that drivers' ability can cope with, falling asleep on a long boring stretch of road and hitting a tree after a 12 hour night shift in a remote minesite (that's a favorite one up here), or trying to overtake and miss-judging the distance you require, ending up in a head on.

These all involve speed but it isn't the major factor causing these accidents.