Toyota 1 ... Holden And Ford Zero.

[howitzer85]

anyone in the auto industry would know how shaky the ground is for ford rite now.

onle producing cars for 1 shift 4 days a week has gotta hurt the companies wallet.....

[F6 UTE]

one day pat.. people will realise toyotas are sh*t, unfortunatly by the time that day comes ford and holden/GM will be dead

And that's due to Ford & Expensive Daewoo producing crap for so many years. Bad styling (AU) and mechanical decisions - Can you say Expensive Daewoo Camira?

"Have you driven a Foooooord lately just admitted they knew they were sh!t cars - direct from the manufacturer's mouth...

"Oh What a Feeling" - "Unbreakable" - and "Bugger" - some of the BEST advertising campaigns, directed at the absolute majority I've ever seen, for any product..

Brand recognition is for the MASSES, not the enthusiasts. When I had my ute, people couldn't tell it from a base model falcon (seriously). When I said FPV, they took a blank stare. I had to say "Ford's HSV", only then did they understand.

The japs have been producing reliable cars (Want a 4wd?? buy a cruiser....) for alot longer than Ford or Expensive Daewoo could have dreamed, unfortunately it's too little too late for the AU manufacturers.

I hope to sh!t the V6 in the Falc is good - coz that LS3 is a damn good package in a very appealing body shape, the VE actually gets noticed. FG what????

The FG F6 is doing wonders for FoMoCo. It's about time, but only time will tell if they pull an AU styling decision on the next model and throw in a Camira engine.....

Take a good look at what's happening out there, without the rose coloured - Ford branded glasses on..

[smicky]

I haven't noticed anyone talking about fleet buying either (admit haven't read everyone's posts either just a quick look over)...

I believe a lot of the fleet buying that traditionally went the way of Ford #1 Holden #2 Mitsubishi/Toyota #3 seems to have run away for Ford and even Expensive Daewoo as well...

Companies like Boral, One Steel, BHP, were all big fleet buyers of Ford (I know Boral for fact would have a few thousand Fords on the books at any one time years ago, including Fairmonts etc)... However all of this seems to have made a move away from Ford and Expensive Daewoo also...

Not to mention just looking for a hire car for next month for a few days earlier tonite and everyone seems to have Toyota's and even Mitsubishi's (whats left of them)... Yes Budget and Hertz look to have a few Falcons and Fairlanes still but you never saw all the others carrying Toyota's as the main car...

I wonder if both Ford and Expensive Daewoo have have let a lot of these 'bulk' sales slip away over the past 5 or so years as well... Surly taking into consideration just a few of these larger companies, hire cars and the likes would account for 20,000+ (and that's being conservative IMO) cars at least a year!

Not only is Toyota a bit thorn in the local (Ford/Holden) side, but the likes of Audi now being the fastest growing (or was) Luxury car brand in Australia, Lexus in more recent years, Mazda with the likes of the 6 and 3, Nissan with the Pulsar range, Subaru with the likes of the Forester, surly the ever growing offering to the Australian market has a big effect to local built sales as well... IMO.

Late 1990's had the likes of Hyundai push hard into Australia, and I believe from last time I looked they were selling somewhere in the area of 3500-4500 cars a month (total sales) in Australia... Again sales that would have probably be a big slice to Ford back until the mid 90's with the Laser/Maz323 (equal now Focus)...

I dont believe there is a hell of a lot Ford and/or Expensive Daewoo can do to increase sales above what/where they are at current (and have been over the past 3-5yrs) for current models such as Falcon/Commodore... All to often we (I) read reports on the increase in sales of the small car market... From what I can guess there is only roughly a 300-600 car sales difference between Ford, Holden, and Toyota of cars such as the Falcon, Commodore, and Corolla (not the Camry in all occasions/months mind you)...

Maybe the intro to Fords local building line up of the Focus in coming years will help and assist with the local Ford market... Fingers crossed it wont be to late!

F6 Ute - Agree with you on your points regarding marketing and branding - however Ford and Expensive Daewoo are the first 1 and 2 brands everyone says or thinks of when it comes to local/aussie built cars...

I also need to explain many times to people what an FPV is - I believe this may also be due to the FPV name/brand still being somewhat virgin (5 yrs old) where as Tickford was a little better established/known towards the end.

IMO Ford as a brand is in no way under marketed - through out the whole world Ford pretty much exists with the likes of GM, BMW, Merc etc... People know who they are, its more a case of why would I buy a Ford or Expensive Daewoo over a Camry for a Large Car? Toyota (yes look sh*t IMO) however bang for buck it seems people see better value for $$$...

Most of the people I know in my generation are more interested in buying a Jap Crap turbo (as was I until the 6t's from FoMo Aust.). its not until they are married, 2 kids and the puppy dog that they consider a bigger car. In all to many cases they are looking at SUV's or Medium sized cars such as the Accord, Mad6 and Suby Forester... However not a Ford Falcon or a Holden... (and I dont know anyone in my crowd friend, family, or even business based relationship) that ownes or has even considered a Camry... Again all look at Honda, Mazda, Suby, BMW, for mid sized and/or small hatch's etc...

As mentioned above I hope Ford Aust can do some work on the Focus (once its built here, excluding the ST, RS and Softtop I believe they will remain as German built)... and along side look to seriously push the Mondeo as a mid sized car...

Maybe im just written a load of bullsh*t - I'm not in the industry, however just a few thoughts that run through my head and my opinion from what I see when looking at reported sales numbers....

Edited 15/11/08 04:41 PM by smicky

[iTec]

smickers you are on the money with regards to fleet sales, most companies have stoped buying commies and falcons because of the rate they depreciate. The irony of the matter is that half the reason these cars depreciated so much was because of the fleet sales

[berzerker]

Seeing less Honda's in these areas which makes me wonder if some of the traditional Honda and the like owners are switching as well...

Mate, ive noticed this as well - been thinking this a year or two now. Theres practically none on the road. I remember 10 years ago that was all the ricer jap boys used to drive... I think theyve all changed over to nissans

[smicky]

One thing I didnt mention this morning is - I still seriously believe Ford should have been looking at developing some sort of Export Program...

There is no 'real' reason the B series should not have been sent OS, Ford have been building a world class able product for many many years - IMO since the EA (well maybe EB, EA was a bit of a rush job).... They have had years and years to consider doing this effectively even if it is to try and capture and lesser some of the blow...

Expensive Daewoo may not send many OS, but at least they are giving it a go - it would be interesting to see if the return on exports for Expensive Daewoo Aust and if it has made then a little $$$...

We take the Focus (currently), Mondeo, Vans, and now in the next few years the Lincoln to replace the Fairlane (if this still goes ahead)... The limo (long wheel base) market is now all Holdens here in Oz (excluding imports)...

Next thing you know ford what just be pulling the V8's out again (as the roomers float around), we wont just have the V6 the 6's will be lost to, and all the boys in Melb will be building is the Focus...

I dont know there is any 'easy' answer for Ford Aust, but with he Aust $$$ dying again, I bet they will look to source local parts over imports again, as it wont be cost effective for them to get bits of plastic etc from China or where ever... The drop in Fuel will also have some of the traditional larger car buyers consider making a change over to the new FG IMO as well...

The bigger question I guess for Ford and Expensive Daewoo is - their current models have just about everything every other brand carried now - ABS, Power Everything, Leather (ok option but still), IRS, ZF Autos, Parking Sensors, Traction/Stability Control, not a bad looking product, good ride and handling, CD, Sub, Air/Climate Control, all the extras you can pretty much what... But they are still not selling... Why?

It really does compare with the imported gear from the likes of Honda, Mazda, Lexus, even BMW and Merc to some extent... What would we the aussie population want or ask more from them?

As for marketing, a lot of people are saying or believe Ford havent marketing well for years... Yes ok agree that they should have probably had a little more hype before the FG was launched, however there was far to many unsold BF's still floating around, and the whole Ford v's Expensive Daewoo keep it a secret thing seems to have just disappeared which IMO was a big part to the hype each time either one was designing a new car...

Ford spend big big $$$ on marketing to the traditional Ford markets which is not a bad thing... V8 super car series (yes they are pulling 2 teams but still 2 will remain)...

The Cricket big $$$ spent there...

AFL sponsorship again $$$ there...

TV/Print Adds...

Did - the Tennis (however not currently).

Expensive Daewoo on the other hand, Motorsport V8's, TV/Print adds, Golf and I think that's about it? (I might be wrong)...

Yet people still thing Ford need to do more?

Will it give them a greater return and increase sales for the Falcon? IMO it wont...

iTec, glad someone agrees however while a slice of the corporate fleet sales, hire cars and the likes are now going to Toyota, and even Mitsubishi until the closure of the Aussie plate, I believe more and more companies are in fact now handing out car allowances rather then buying company cars... It is a far better situation for the company to be in as they have a bankable flat rate to account for each week/month etc... and it becomes a better tax advantage for the employee, not to mention they are then entitled to make a pick to a car of their own choice!

So many sales exec's I know that would have traditionally been in a Falcon or Commy, are now in Mazda's, small BMW's, even Audi's due to car allowances...

How many cabbys are still driving B's? HEAPS (well here in Sydney)... and there isn't many F's at all... Again this is something which in the past would have typically been changed over in a matter of weeks, following a launch of a new Falcon...

There is more and more non Falcon/Commy's which I see as cop cars, council cars, etc as well... Mitsubushi's, Toyotas and even a few Lancers, and the likes...

The market and industry have changed dramatically in the past 5 or so years and really hit Ford and Expensive Daewoo in a big way - they were never setup in Australia to do much more then build a BIG BEAST FUEL FLOGGING FAMILY AND TOURING TYPE CARS...

What do they do next??? I'm sure Ford would pay a lot of money to anyone that has a solution to this for them!!!

I dont believe rebranding Toyota's to Fords, and Holdens to Fords as well then selling them for 10% less would help them out of this one...

Again - this is just IMO... as im not in the car industry, however this is what I believe...

Edited 16/11/08 01:55 AM by smicky

[senna_T]

The Falcon has never gone to the US because they have too many plants and people employed to develop, engineer, test, and eventually build their Domestic product. The plants here could not keep up with production for Texas, let alone the entire country. Re-tool and build falcons in the States - cost would be restrictive here.

That and we don't build enough cup holders in our cars...

You'll also notice that there aren't many FG taxi's around because Ford don't make a "Taxi Pack" anymore (vinyl interior, roof lighting wiring loom and heavy duty alternator) Plus the new FG was quite a bit more expensive than the out-going BF's, the drivers didn't want to fork out close to $40K for a new taxi that they had to re-trim and fit out...

[Dillz]

I don't get it, I still see a sh*te load more FG's and VE's than the new Yota's or Accords.

[RHR]

Fords advertising is sh*t. Look at the latest wheels mag..They are using their two page spread to advertise the mondeo over the falcon.

[senna_T]

I don't get it, I still see a sh*te load more FG's and VE's than the new Yota's or Accords.

that's Melbourne though, when I came down there in the GT people were hanging out the window to get a look at the thing, up here in sydney you barely get a look unless the person likes fords.

I think the car culture is much more Ford biased in Melb due to the fact that everyone has a brother/sister/cousin/aunt/uncle's friends brothers ex-room mate that worked at either Broadmeadows or Geelong...

Hey robbo, you comin to the December DM Dinner?