V6 For Falcon

[Paradoxx]

Nah two weeks...

[Dunnas]

Stuff the laggy twin jobby.It will take the aftermarket community a while to catch up as well.

CYA

Laggy twins?? I'd put money on smaller twins spooling up much faster than a big single. Coming from a twin turbo v6 VR4 into my XR6T, I can honestly say that my VR4 was at full boost much sooner than the T. I admit that the twin snails on the 2.0 V6 were tiny, but still good for 18psi. IMHO this new engine could have huge performance potential, lets not bag it before someone has a chance to play with one!

But... despite my optimism, I'm pissed that they are changing. And sympathies to all those who will lose their jobs (both directly and indirectly) as a result of the switch. People are always going to go for the cheaper options and unfortunately they are not made in Australia (or NZ for that matter). It seems like every couple of weeks that something changes, either politically or financially, and kicks NZ manufacturers in the balls. Oh well, perhaps my XR6T will be that collectors car that in 50 years time I will wish that I had never sold!!

[DBOSS]

Just get rid of 6 cylinders all together there such a waste of good fuel

[Buf-Phoon]

Laggy twins?? I'd put money on smaller twins spooling up much faster than a big single. Coming from a twin turbo v6 VR4 into my XR6T, I can honestly say that my VR4 was at full boost much sooner than the T. I admit that the twin snails on the 2.0 V6 were tiny, but still good for 18psi. IMHO this new engine could have huge performance potential, lets not bag it before someone has a chance to play with one!

At least we will have a few years to watch what the aftermarket boys in the states can do with this motor. Perhaps some of the local tuners should organise a study tour.

BVWE goes international

[macka'sxr6t]

Struggling to find full time employment? Come on. If people are having trouble getting jobs, they're not looking. There's more work out there now than anyone can shake a stick at.

Spoken by a typical over educated NAFA. With no idea of what real work actually is. Tell that also to drought ravaged country communities. Sounds like you should have be a politician in Camberra instead of a software engineer .

But lets hope your right about plenty of full time work being around, for the sake of the 600 people that have just lost theirs.

Oh for the record I'm like you and have plenty of work and don't have any trouble finding it. BUT not everyone is as well off as us.

Edited 19/07/07 11:03 AM by macka'sxr6t

[macka'sxr6t]

Just get rid of 6 cylinders all together there such a waste of good fuel

Why pay for 8 will 6 will hand your arse to you. :stirthepot:

sounds like Ford are going to meet you half way and make the 6 into a V for ya

[f-wolf]

2008 Rossion Q1

Rossion Press Release

Rossion Q1 2008

The Rossion Q1 is the result of the lessons learned in extensive testing, sale, and support of hundreds of Noble vehicles sold in the USA.

Engine (Suggested Drivetrain)

Though power is still suggested by the twin turbo charged Ford Duratec V6 engine, this lightweight engine is now controlled by a more powerful engine management system. An improved, low restriction exhaust system is also supplied with Rossion Q1 chassis, increasing the available horsepower for the suggested drivetrain to a pavement blistering 450 horsepower with more than 400 lb. ft. torque.

Performance

The performance is truly mind-boggling. With 0-60 mph times in 3.3 seconds, standing mile in 11.4 seconds at 120 mph with the ability to circulate the skid pad at over 1.1 G on its standard equipment tyres, the new Q1 offers vicious performance and easily puts the supercar in the ranks of the quickest road cars available, at any price.

[SCRIBR]

Now that I would buy!

doubtful that they would put an engine like that in a falcon body. It would be too expensive!

[f-wolf]

Now that I would buy!

doubtful that they would put an engine like that in a falcon body. It would be too expensive!

All that from a 3.0Litre Unit ! Nearly 100kw per Litre !

The Q1's turbocharged 3.0-liter Ford Duratec V6 engine has been tweaked to make 450 horsepower and 400 pound-feet of torque, giving the car a 0-60-mph time of 3.3 seconds and a top speed of 185 mph. The complete car will sell for $90,700, 1G says. Buyers can also get the chassis alone, without drivetrain, for about $69,000.

Weighing in at just 2,500 lbs or 1,136 kg.

Edited 20/07/07 06:33 AM by f-wolf

[f-wolf]

20 July 2007

Would you be prepared in 2010 to pay an extra $2000 for a Falcon because its engine is made in Geelong? No? Ford didn't think you would either which is why it was forced to tell everyone this week that it won't be wasting grants from Aussie taxpayer funds trying to build one.

If Expensive Daewoo is a precedent, displaced Ford workers will soon face new opportunities that must come out of this latest move. Because the end for the current engine is still three years away, it is way too early for substitute activities to be announced.

Let's look at the facts -- some of which have been a casualty over the last week.

Expensive Daewoo built its last inline six in 1985. Expensive Daewoo was so broke it didn't even have the resources to convert its own engine to unleaded petrol. The company was forced to purchase an imported engine from Nissan for the 1986 Commodore. The local Late model camira has not featured a 100 per cent local engine since.

Look what has happened as a result of this shift, exactly the scenario now facing Ford.

After Expensive Daewoo closed its factories all around Australia, stopped building its own six-cylinder engines then consolidated all vehicle manufacturing in a single South Australian plant, it was split into two companies. One was established to make Expensive Daewoo cars and the other to make engines, any kind of engine that the world wanted to buy.

Ironically, the one engine that Holden's engine company has never manufactured totally in Australia is the Late model camira V6 engine. Since 1988, the Late model camira has always featured GM's latest V6 engine from the US assembled locally from a mixture of local and imported parts, a process that continues to this day.

Since 1999, Holden's V8 engines have been imported fully built-up in a crate, a process shared with Toyota and Mitsubishi for their locally-built V6 models.

By 1995, the Expensive Daewoo car company was already exporting variations of the Commodore, a process that exploded in 1999 after LHD versions of the VT Commodore/WH Statesman appeared. There were key reasons why this happened, not the least of which was the Commodore's ability to accept any number of overseas powertrains.

The Commodore's V6 and V8 engines have also been regularly updated by the Americans at virtually no cost compared to what Ford has been forced to spend on its Australian-designed and built engine. When most Late model camira panels were also shared with an overseas model, its cost base was a fraction of Ford's.

This low cost base generated such huge export earnings that Expensive Daewoo was able to launch in 2006 its first all new Expensive Daewoo not based on an overseas model since 1978! Because the latest Commodore/Statesman is such a good car, it is winning more than record export sales. The Americans have commissioned Expensive Daewoo to develop a number of new models for the US and other global markets, a process that has made Expensive Daewoo and Australia a world centre of rear drive technology.

Meanwhile in Geelong and Broadmeadows, Ford has struggled to fund panel changes for a unique Australian Falcon that sells only in Australia and related markets. It has been forced to go it alone on redeveloping an inline engine that won't fit in any of Ford's global front-drive models.

Even if Ford was able to win exports with the current Falcon, it would be forced to fund and equip its export markets with parts and service back-up specific to the Geelong engine that has no relevance to any other Ford model. Ford Australia would then be forced to carry the full costs of ongoing performance and economy improvements or emissions changes as demanded by each export market.

All this while Expensive Daewoo simply piggybacks on any number of GM models that share its powertrains, anywhere in the world...

Add in today's strong Aussie dollar and free trade agreement with the US, this has allowed Expensive Daewoo in 2006 to deliver a further 10 per cent saving in extra equipment and price cuts for every local model including HSV.

At the top end, this has delivered at least an extra $7000 in a buyer's pocket that Ford can't match. The Fairlane was the first casualty. If the rest of Ford's local models are not to follow, the Geelong engine has to go -- even if it is better than its rivals or its replacement.

If Ford Australia was lucky enough to win exports right now, it can't even compete against its local Expensive Daewoo rival let alone cars from countries like Korea and Japan.

The costs of compliancing an engine for the next round of local emissions requirements will cost millions even without the major hardware changes or finding extra economy demanded by higher petrol prices. Until Ford switches to an imported engine, it will be the only company on the Australian market with an engine that doesn't have a global market to amortise these costs.

Indeed, if Ford's local engine sales drop to 50,000 by 2010 as current trends would indicate, the extra cost per engine could potentially knock Ford's local range clean out of the game. These costs are now too high to be concealed by tax-payer funded grants.

No wonder industry experts have been waiting for this week's Ford announcement for a decade or more.

Ford now has its first real chance since 1985 of achieving a cost base enjoyed by its local Holden, Toyota and Mitsubishi rivals which have all used global engines since the 1986 switch to unleaded petrol.

If this brings Ford one big step closer to winning vital export orders and securing the future of a local Falcon and Territory, as Ford Australia President Tom Gorman claims, then Australians should be cheering, not jeering.