BRAKE SHUDDER ISSUE

[ASNU]

Here is the latest explanation I have got for this shudder issue.

With the BA Ford wanted a firmer feel to the brakes compared to an AU, so the calipers and mounting brackets were designed with far less flex. With less flex, something has to give and eventually its the rotors.

This is consistent with some of those who changed to DBA rotors finding that the shudder reappears after a longer period. I.e. the DBAs are better quality and hence harder.

What I have been told is that from 1 October 2003 the calipers and mounting brackets for new BAs have been redesigned with more flex, to give a pedal feel that moves back closer to the AU.

I also believe that pre October 1 owners have a 100,000km warranty on rotors.

Does anyone know if the master cylinder on the premium brakes is different to the one on the standard brakes? Just trying to cost an upgrade. I know that the front calipers, rotors and pads are different and with the rear its just the rotors.

Henry.

I was looking at the expoded picture of the premium set up yesterday and the master cylinder is the same.The price of the ford disc is rediculous so diffently look at the DBA one listed on there website plus you can get aftermarket premuim pads that will reduce the cost as well.From looking at the diagram they are a simple bolt in Caliper useing existing points.

I contacted PBR yesterday regarding the new coloured calipers they have just bought out but the same size so waste of time.They explained they are developing a upgraded caliper plus disc for the BA for release next year which sounds good.

I would think the premium ford front only upgrade would cost around 1-1.5K depending on who you no and where you buy.

[axw01]

Thanks for the update Henry. But I've got to tell you, despite the fact that we have 100,000 klms warranty on the rotors, it does not make this problem any easier to accept. I've personally had 4 sets of rotors on my car (including the original set) and I have also had at least 4 machine jobs in the space of 37000 klms. This adds up to a sh*#t load of my time wasted on visits to the dealership. I shudder to think 'pun intended' what this dodgy fix means for the future.

I was planning to keep this car at the end of the lease and pass it on to the leader of the opposition, however, if this problem is going to exist forever (and at this stage, given what we have seen and heard so far it will) maybe I'm better off passing the problem off onto some other poor unsuspecting soul as opposed to having 3monthly visits to the dealership, which by rate of klms I am doing now, will be at my expense within the next 12-18mths once the 100,000klms warranty period is over.

This is my first brand new Ford (I've only owned Fords all my life and despite this brake issue would still not even contemplate going over to the dark side) and whilst everything else about this car is awesome, I am very disappointed in this situation and how it has been handled. It has been 12months now since the release of the car and this is what we get as a 'fix'.

OK, off my high horse now, I'm going out to have some fun and put those dodgy brakes to some use!!!

[Guest Mr Walker]

With the BA Ford wanted a firmer feel to the brakes compared to an AU, so the calipers and mounting brackets were designed with far less flex. With less flex, something has to give and eventually its the rotors.

Why does something HAVE to give? The best brake systems are designed not to flex thereby increasing performance and I don't see their rotors warping.

[HellionXR6T]

With the BA Ford wanted a firmer feel to the brakes compared to an AU, so the calipers and mounting brackets were designed with far less flex. With less flex, something has to give and eventually its the rotors.

Why does something HAVE to give? The best brake systems are designed not to flex thereby increasing performance and I don't see their rotors warping.

Hell yess, I agree.

Rotors should need machining after 80,000 to 100,000 kms, not 10,000!!!!!

[Guest 56Mainline]

I would like to offer you a warm welcome in joining all of us to the shudder club.

Gees, thanks ASNU, but I'd really hoped to avoid joining this particular group of motorists!!!

I distinctly get the inpression that it isn't all that elite a "club".....it seems everyone is getting "in"!!!!

[ktford]

On discussing this issue with another member of the "shudder club", he advised me that after he'd run a few hard laps around a race track in his modified "T" his brake shudder dissapeared during his cool down lap. Interesting I thought.

Scotty

[FORDTECH]

Are you suggesting you no what is the cause of this?.Please enlighten us all.

The beauty of this discussion is everybody has or is getting different mods to remedy a fault as the dealers seem to be abit in the dark.We have all been back several times for the machine job plus another couple of guys have just had new clips fitted with a suss brake take up point so I would not really call this a fix.Rotors have even been replaced only to have the problem come back.Do you have a conclusion or fix that maybe is new that will fix this?.Any constructive feedback would be most welcome.

Ok guy’s I’ll try and explain it the best I can. Please remember though that this is the official Ford explanation and remedy (So don’t shoot the messenger). This problem has been extensively investigated and after trying a sh*tload of different methods of repair and different torque settings on the associated components and this is the end result.

The basic problem to start with is what is called DTV (Disc Thickness Variation), which is caused by excessive runout of the front rotors. The excessive runout is caused by inconsistent wheel nut torque. What actually happens when the wheel nuts are tightened the disc and hub distort (or warp), causing the excessive runout. While the vehicle is being driven the disc brake pads can no longer maintain the air gap from the rotor because the rotor is no longer spinning true (it now wobbles like a buckled rim, but not as exaggerated). Now ordinarily the disc pad would be forced back into the pad retainers of the calliper. But there in lies the problem (hence the revised shims). The shim that is already fitted to the callipers doesn’t allow the pad to move far enough away from the rotor, so it slowly machines the high spots off the rotor until eventually the thickness variation in the diameter of the rotor is that inconsistent that when you apply the brakes you now apply pressure to a rotor that is thinner in certain spots, and voila, Brake shudder.

Now the fix that every Ford dealer in Oz should know is as follows:

First you have to remove the calliper and rotor, remove the ABS sensors, clean both mating surfaces of the disc and hub, refit the disc to the vehicle making sure the phase marks on both are aligned correctly (Yellow paint on 1 wheel stud and a date stamp on the rotor near the relevant stud hole), attach the on car lathe adapter to the hub and torque the retaining nuts to 50nm, attach the lathe to the adapter and start machine, allow machine to calibrate itself before starting to cut the rotor, once calibrated start machining the rotor, once the machining is completed and before removing the lathe hub adapter attach the digital dial indicator and measure the TIR(Total Indicated Runout), it should measure 40microns or less (the procut lathes that are used have been calibrated to 20microns (25.4microns = 1 thousandth of an inch), remove the lathe hub and remove all the metal swarf from around the rotor and hub area, refit the ABS sensors, refit the brake callipers, remove the bottom main calliper body retaining bolt and pivot body out of the way, remove both pads and retaining shims, fit new level shims and refit both pads, replace main calliper body and refit wheels, tighten wheel nuts in a star patter using a 135nm tork stick, or using a tension wrench and socket torque the wheel nuts to 135nm.

The unfortunate thing about this is that if you get a flat tyre or if you have had other wheels fitted and the nuts are not re torqued to specification then you reintroduce the problem. So while this may be a permanent fix at the dealerships it can become a problem as soon as certain circumstances arise.

Hope this helps

FORDTECH

P.S This procedure should not effect your pedal travel in anyway. If it doesnt feel right take it back.

[Zeke]

Sorry if this is a silly question...

But, if I ensure the wheel nuts are always torqued to 135Nm, the problem shouldn't occur??

I've got an old el-cheapo torque wrench in the shed but, if the torque's that critical, I'll invest in a better one and recheck things every time my car or the wife's car goes near a dealership or tyre place.

Regards

zeke

[FORDTECH]

Sorry if this is a silly question...

But, if I ensure the wheel nuts are always torqued to 135Nm, the problem shouldn't occur??

I've got an old el-cheapo torque wrench in the shed but, if the torque's that critical, I'll invest in a better one and recheck things every time my car or the wife's car goes near a dealership or tyre place.

Regards

zeke

Zeke, All dealers should be refitting wheels using either a tork stick or a torque wrench so there should be no need to recheck the wheel nuts.But then again we are talking about dealers here.

Also what your saying is right,if you've had your disc's machined and the revised shims fitted and your wheel nuts are torqued correctly, the problem shouldnt re appear.It's just a pain in the arse to go through the procedure to make sure it doesnt happen again.

[Zeke]

Fordtech

Thanks for that.

Neither of our cars has the dreaded shudder issue yet, so I think I'll check the torque, make sure it's spot-on and cross my fingers that it never happens. If I understood you correctly, if the torque is right, the rotors won't distort and the revised shims won't be necessary??

I know that the dealers/tyre places are supposed to get it right, but my experience is that it never hurts to check.

Regards

zeke