BRAKE SHUDDER ISSUE

[Guest cul08r]

UMMM, am I missing something Benny?

You just said that Ford have admitted a problem with the calipers and you are going to fit new rotors and pads and see if that fixes the problem?

How does new pads and rotors fix a caliper/piston problem?

Andrew

[Benny]

Sorry for the confusion,

I'm not fitting the new pads and rotors to fix the problem. I'm fitting these new items to get better brake bite and reduce fade. The thinner shims are getting done today so this shudder problem wont happen with the new brakes.

[dattoman]

What does shims have to do with the design of the caliper seals ?

Once the pad has been in contact with the discs and rolls back on the seals as far as it can go the pads thickness has nothing to do with it.......so thinner shims (I assume pad backing shim) has nothing to do with it. If you mean the rattle shims the pad slides on this might help.......but unlikely.

I agree it sounds like the caliper is the real culprut and the discs is getting the blame. I believe the pad is also contributing to the dramas. I heard that VT pads can be adapted to the calipers accroding to NT Police force......they have been experimenting to fix their shudder problems too. I haven't seen any companies with aftermarket pads available yet. I belive Ferodo are the closest.If anyone hears of any let me know.

[GOLDIE]

Dattoman I agree the shims would not make any difference as the piston will just take up the clearence.

If it was the pads still rubbing on the disc we would have drag on the brakes and you would notice it as the car would not roll when brakes are not applied. our car is easy to move when you push it the problem is the disc and this has been a problem for many years with ford and Expensive Daewoo that are using standard disc's DBA gold the way to go.

[Benny]

Yes its the rattle shims that the pad slides on that are replaced because they are to tight for the new seal design that gives you the great peddle feel and little roll back. The drag that the pads have on the rotor is only very slight, not something that you would notice by pushing your car. But this drag must be more than the AU brake because they didn't have such a big problem.

I'm no brake guru or anything just passing on the info from a friend at ford and trying to get peoples minds thinking.

dbasteve can you shed some light on this? Could this be just some crap that fords feeding us to keep us thinking that there on the job.

[Guest dbasteve]

It sounds like we have a born again VT caliper.

Bendix are filling orders now for BA pads and Ferodo are supposed to have some next week (Which they told me last week too).

I think different pads will help reduce or slow down the generation of the shudder for sure. As does the slots and holes in the rotors but I'm still not convinced it is a complete solution. All we seem to be doing is prolonging the inevitable to a more acceptable time frame.

The seal roll back issue is a common problem in SAE studies done on DTV generation. So is pad material, Pad flex (too long a pad for piston area), and flex on the caliper body and/or bracket.

[Guest MKeily]

So Steve as I'm not a techo, are you saying that in your opinion Ford's approach will likely not be a long term fix.

I appreciate you will have a bias to your own product, but would you recommend the DBA's as a longer term fix assuming Ford will do the stuff with the calipers?

[Guest dbasteve]

So Steve as I'm not a techo, are you saying that in your opinion Ford's approach will likely not be a long term fix.

I appreciate you will have a bias to your own product, but would you recommend the DBA's as a longer term fix assuming Ford will do the stuff with the calipers?

I think the Ford guys are doing their best to find the true root cause of the problem. Whether this is done in one fix or a progression of fixes over the next few series of BA is anyones guess at the moment.

When the problem is fixed correctly you should be able to fit any rotor machined to spec on the vehicle whith out any hassles. I've tried to make it clear that DBA rotors will mask or prolong the occurance of the vibration, but I don't consider them a fix for this cold shudder problem. Thermal shudder or instablility, yes they do fix this.

So if you want to go back to the dealer less often there is an option. Check with your dealer that it won't affect your warranty on other braking components if you run DBA's while a fix is being sorted. I know of dealers that have fitted DBA's to customers cars but not all dealers may have the same opinion. The rotors were sold to the customers by the way.

I'll never make the sales team... :(

[Ditto]

Hopefully there is a fix soon.

Going in this week to get disc machined again - first time at 3k now at 6k

[ktford]

I voted on this ages ago when I'd done about 4000k's. Since I reached 10,000k's the shuddering has crept into my beast, now a couple of weeks off my 15,000k service, it at times is annoying but I find that on most of my short suburban trips that I'm not really affected. I assume that they'll machine them at the service, if this doesn't last I'll be replacing them with DBA's quick smart.

The brakes would have to fall of the car to remove the stupid grin on my face, whenever the chook is in the passenger seat & I floor it for no real reason she just looks at me, pats me on the knee & says "are you having fun?" We all know the answer!!! ABSOLUTELY

p.s. Ken & you others naughty boys, a pat on the knee only, if it goes any further I promise I'll post photos.

Scotty