Edit.

[Dush73]

Thanks Dillz,

I will have a read.....I guess a few more hundred for a custom tune(on top of the cost of a flasher) is worth it if its gonna keep my engine from blowing up

[Dillz]

No worries, don't mean to be blunt I just hate them and the damage they do.

[SuckSqueezeBangBlow]

heaps of other brands of cars can safely run mail order tunes.

Most modern ECUs, even with a mail order tune, still run the car within a huge range of parameters, of which if the car starts to run outside of them it will chuck a 'check engine' light.

with the way the flash tuner works I.e. edit the tables, run the car full power, monitor/listen, re-edit, run the car full power, heat-soak, repeat until its right - how custom is it really going to be anyway? real-time programming is much better than this system, yet flash tuning still yields great results due to the huge range you are programming for and how much the ECU can compensate.

FWIW, I got my generic tune checked out by an awesome tuner and he said its ok and didn't try and 'up-sell' any custom tuning.

IMHO I think poor maintenance and running too low on fuel (known physical fuel pick up problem) are probably to blame for a lot of engine failures, both generic or custom tune.

[Samboc]

FWIW, I got my generic tune checked out by an awesome tuner and he said its ok and didn't try and 'up-sell' any custom tuning.

Seems to me you might have met a rare honest tuner.

Told you the truth and did not try to sell you the world just because you want a XR6 TURBO " Better Than The Rest "

No one has yet answered my query " WHY"

[Adam]

Ever seen the Top Gear episode where Clarkson has the R35 GTR and says there isn't an exact power figure because they all vary slightly?

Those are hand built engines. Not mass produced like our run of the mill Falcon or Late model camira engines.

The reality is that the above statement is the same for every engine. There will always be slight differences and that can make a difference to the end result.

I've seen T's that just love heaps of timing and I've seen the opposite.

I've seen cars with overly sensitive knock control, while others tolerate it more.

A custom tune doesn't mean you're safe from killing an engine, but it's a step in the right direction.

Plenty of modified engines have let go at low RPM. Why that is I don't know. It just happens.

Not all generic tunes are created equal. Some are rubbish and some aren't too bad. The same can be said for custom tunes.

A custom tune isn't good just because it's custom. It needs to be done by someone who knows what they're doing.

Years ago, when SCT edit landed, a tuner traveled the country doing custom tunes for people. All he did was leave a trail of destruction and unhappy people behind.

Read these forums, don't cut corners and most importantly, get a custom tune from a proven tuner.

[Dillz]

Years ago, when SCT edit landed, a tuner traveled the country doing custom tunes for people. All he did was leave a trail of destruction and unhappy people behind.

Some say his mere glance at a car ads 50rwkw's, and that his world renowned workshop sorta resembles a maccas carpark. All we know is he's called THE WOG.

[01txr]

You will find when a tuner offers a generic tune if he knows what he is doing it will be safe like slightly rich and not to aggressive, he should be looking after his name.

However you get some others that claim there tunes make more power but it's not so friendly on the engine, they hope they don't get many failures and hope the extra power gives them business over the safe tuner.

These engines are built to closer tolerances but still are not as precise as euro or jap.

Even still for someone wanting to get some more power from a standard t a generic tune should be fine. For safe reasons I would suggest to fit a wideband o2 gauge so you can monitor afr's Pre & post tune.

If you get unsafe readings then get a custom tune.

Having the gauge will also make the tuner be more honest as you will be able to monitor the fuel differences he has made.

I have learnt as with my car BA XRT man sedan, as it was tuned when I purchased it, previous owner told me of the bad tuning performed by a very reputable long time company in Brisbane southside, said he went back numerous times and that they could not get it sorted.

He then went to another known tuner same area who sorted it, well so he thought.

I drove it for approx 6mths as was, always bit rich on pipe colour, 1100rpm idle, random miss at idle, random erratic start up where I would have to shut it down restart.

Fuel Eco of 12.5 highway.

But hay 275rwkw great.

I fitted x-force 3.5 system to it, livened it up plenty more, ran at drags with a disappointing 13.9, mine you poor 60ft being manual.

Decided to tune it myself starting off from a generic tune BPR done along with Racer Pro package.

Just tinkering with tune over a few weeks, had it idling at 400rpm (wow could not belei e it) but set it at 550 just so it was less risky to stall.

Set afr's at 11.9 nice and safe, no more random miss, no more random erratic start ups, Eco now amazing 9l per 100k and dropped my ets to 13.5.

Not to bad for a novice.

Anyway moved on from there with a lot more goodies and found how weak the rods are.

At the end of it all, I'm saying becareful on your chosen tuner, make sure whatever boltons you add are suitable for your goal and to be safe get a wideband o2 gauge.

Keep in mind with more power comes a cost to reliability.

Things to beware of with tuning for more power are.

BA conrods

Valve springs

Turbo oil supply (make sure not blocking up)

Wastegate flapper (can only control so much flow due to it's size)

The BA-BF turbo housing is prone for cracking

Fuel supply (fuel surge in tank)

Driveshafts

T5 manuals and 4spd autos

With those problems a tune will have a worst effect if they are not attended to.

So if you want power be prepared to spend or break then spend.

Just my learnings, hope it helps.

It's not always a bad tune be it generic or custom but mostly due to the limits of these engines, driveline and fuel supply that cause these failures we hear.

[Samboc]

Great response.

Are you able to give me more info on O2 Gauges - use, fitting etc.

I have a FG. I believe a lot of the faults with the BA-BF models have been addressed.

Thanks

Paul

[Adam]

A rich tune doesn't always mean a safe tune and a lean tune doesn't always mean an unsafe tune.

Both can be safe and unsafe.

LeMan cars for example are tuned up around 16 for economy and they're flogged for 24 hours straight.

My old BA ran 13.5 at one stage with no problems whatsoever.

A few years ago now Nizpro held a info session where they used their engine dyno and showed that adding a small amount of fuel to make it richer could actually make it ping. We could hear it in real time via the knock box.

The rule of thumb is that max power is made around 12.5.

[SuckSqueezeBangBlow]

this is the wideband I installed:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php

it has two programmable outputs so you can replace your existing o2 sensor or, like I did, get a second bung welded into your dump and run it separately.

for data logging:

easy solution: you can plug it into one of these:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/ot2.php

harder solution: data log using an Xcal2:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/SCT_tutorial.pdf

I programmed my lc-1 to display on the autometer cobalt gauge but I can see the actual AFR number on the iphone when I want.