Capa Flash Not So Stealth

[shockF6]

Sorry to revive a dead post but here goes. My friend is a finance manager at a large ford dealership. I worked there too until recently. He owns a Mk2 ba sedan. Was edited then threw a rod out of the side of the block at 12000kms or so. It was put back to standard by one of the boys after hours but they still picked it up when the ford tech came out to inspect the car in the workshop. Result-no warranty on engine, now or in the future due to edit. Other items not related to edit are still covered. Himself and another finance manager both went to Nizpro and got some nice work done since ford would not come to the party, and needless to say they are extremely happy. Even if you write over $10,000,000 of buisness for Ford a year, rules are rules and we have to play by them. I guess things are built to a budget and the xr6T is a real budget rocket standard and quite durable. Mine is edit and 106k runs good. One auto but other than that ok.

I sell trucks for a living now. If its rated at 16 ton dont carry 32 ton and expect warranty.

I sold fords and if its drivetrain is tested and rated at 6psi or whatever it is, dont wind it up to 10 or 12 and expect the smiling man behind your service counter to give you a free auto/diff or what ever has a melt down no questions asked.

I don't want to be negative but I can sort of see where they are coming from. You can bend the rules a little...........or a couple of psi pehaps. But just wait 100,000km you can build a pretty quick motor in the back shed over 3 years I'm sure!!! Then unleash hell.

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When did this happen mate? My old man's a workshop foreman at a ford dealer and he was told at a training school about a month ago that the warranty people (can't think of their proper name) that approve major warranty claims have a tool that can detect any alterations to PCM, weather it be edit unichip powerchip etc on all BA & BF's

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this is just like a game of poker. there holding nothing but going all in anyway and you guys are folding a good hand

if anyone was to take a case like this to court then ford will be required to PROVE that the car was modified out side of factory spec otherwise they will be forced to pay for the new engine/court costs etc.

now do you believe ford that they can detect a previous edit even after its been flashed back to stock (with the same factory tune its supposed to have in it) or is it a bluff, I for one think there bluffing and they seem to be getting away with it too so why wouldn't they??????

but all that aside, if a factory part brakes because you want more power than it will handle then why would you want to put another inferior part in that's only guaranteed to brake again?? well unless your the type of person that likes leaving your car at ford getting things fixed over driving and enjoying it yourself

[pelican]

guys, hate to be the messenger that will no doubt get flamed like mad, but what is being talked about is what most people would call.... FRAUD.........

The warranty on the car is for a STANDARD / UNMOLESTED / UN-EDITED car...... anything above and beyond that, is your own responsibility / cost.....

If you have modified your car, and it breaks, it's really a bit much to expect ANY manufacturer to provide warranty for the part......

My own car is still under warranty, yet I HAVE done a few small mods..... and... if they cause an issue, I'll simply pay for my own repairs......

Frankly, if you can afford to play (modify), you should be able to afford to pay.... it's been SAID OVER AND OVER on this forum.......

How many times is this dead horse of an issue going to be flogged ???

[Kimberley Scott]

Pelican the argument is not directly on to stooge or not to stooge. But whether Ford can detect edit, I do understand that these topics are related. But originally the questions was raised, with any known cases of Edit being detected.

The choice to stooge/fraud or not is up to the individual, and not what is being dicscussed.

By the way mate I have since fitted front and rear sway bars, and I know you are interested, so if you want a drive tio see how they fell, we will try and organise a time.

Scotty

[shockF6]

If you have modified your car, and it breaks, it's really a bit much to expect ANY manufacturer to provide warranty for the part......

obviously if the modded part breaks then its not covered under warranty

I know we are talking about edit and detection here which ends up effecting warranty but where is the line for what mods should void your entire drive line warranty??

ford told me that if I put a after market panel air filter in they would void my drive line warranty so with an attitude like that I can understand why so many people want to keep there mods stealth just in case for example, there drivers seat brakes and ford try to blame a performance mod because of increased takeoff G's

[Romulus]

A lot has to do with your relationship with the dealer you go to, some is luck of the draw.

If you are seriously concerned about having your edit detected (especially in the BF's) purchase another pcm and have that flashed with the standard processor code. It's quite normal for some of the LS1 guys to run a couple of pcm's. Ford cannot detect a modified tune if the stock unaltered pcm is in place.

[RAP1D]

A lot has to do with your relationship with the dealer you go to, some is luck of the draw.

If you are seriously concerned about having your edit detected (especially in the BF's) purchase another pcm and have that flashed with the standard processor code. It's quite normal for some of the LS1 guys to run a couple of pcm's. Ford cannot detect a modified tune if the stock unaltered pcm is in place.

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that's the most sensible idea Ive seen for awhile.

[pelican]

Pelican the argument is not directly on to stooge or not to stooge. But whether Ford can detect edit, I do understand that these topics are related. But originally the questions was raised, with any known cases of Edit being detected.

The choice to stooge/fraud or not is up to the individual, and not what is being dicscussed.

By the way mate I have since fitted front and rear sway bars, and I know you are interested, so if you want a drive tio see how they fell, we will try and organise a time.

Scotty

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Scotty, I know what you mean, but, at the root of it all, it should not be about hiding a mod..... As said elsewhere, it IS about the relationship you have with your dealer, and, hopefully there is another dealer around if you dont like your current one..... I know I do have a choice.... and that is why I hate going to where I bought my car from..... their attitude is crapola......

Thanks for the offer on the swaybars... would love to see the difference..... am just waiting to see my options at the moment, as looking to either trade up to a BF, or an F6, then start the mods.....

Cheers

Scott

[ENVY-T]

I can tell you 110% for sure, that on a BA, they CANNOT detect the edit. If you have flashed an old program back in, then they will know, otherwise, as mentioned, it's poker, and you got dudded.

But as mentioned earlier, you pay, you play. And as Pelican said, FRAUD, and if Ford could be f*cked chasing you all, then they would, they just have bigger fish to fry.

[JimmyXR6T04]

I don't really know what all the fuss is about... why do people worry so much if ford can detect edit? who cares? unless you're gonna try stooge them.. that's the only reason you'd even worry about it being detected.

I worried at first, then thought, f*ck it.. if I'm gonna mod the car, I'm gonna be prepared for the breakages..not only that, why the hell would I want to go back to ford and have the same thing installed that'll break again? I'd rather upgrade it to something stronger. In saying that though, I have thought about putting a cheap T5 in the beast if it does go bang... probably cost me $1000 last me another year till I sell the car.

[Headsex]

so with an attitude like that I can understand why so many people want to keep there mods stealth just in case for example, there drivers seat brakes and ford try to blame a performance mod because of increased takeoff G's

Mate of mine has a BA Persuit I tuned. He originally when the car was 6 months old, put 4.11 diff gears in.. and took it to ford to get them to fix the auto shifting (as it now hit rev limitor instead of shifting as the computer reads speed from abs sensor)

They had the car for 3 weeks unknown why it was hitting rev limitor. Then a rocket scientist found out it had 4.11 diff gears in it.. And they promptly called my mate back.. He said.. Uhh DUH, I told your service manager I had changed the diff gears, and want the pcm altered so it doesnt hit rev limitor..

Ford came back with the fix as "replace diff with standard gears".. he said, no thanks.. obviously.

He recieved a phone call from ford head office, informing him of his diff modification has voided his driveline warentee. Which is understandable, and he did not argue with that one bit.

Since then, I had tuned his car, and altered the diff ratio so it would work with his 4.11 diff gears, never seen a bigger smile on his face.. that was 2 years ago.

Recently he has had 3 warenty problems. It would go into limp mode and RPM would stay at 2500 and it was not responding to throttle request. that was intermitent. His leather seat was also instiching.

He told the service manager it was custom tuned, so do not reflash it. They fixed the seat, and replaced the Throttle body (or tps sensor, unsure which was faulty).

He never once argued with regards to warenty with the driveline, he understood as soon as he played with it, its void, and not once did they say anything about not covering seat repairs, or even throttle body repairs due to modification. Infact, I would have expected his throttle body / tps fault to be void as I imagined the engine was under the driveline warenty which was void.

Since then, He has purchased the extended ford warenty. Sure, it doesnt cover his driveline, but he has had nothing but great service from the dealer even though its got 300rwkw.... Personally I think the service manager likes driving it

If anything fails in my car due to a modification I do weather it being edit related or not, I am gonna fit the bill myself, not attempt to fool ford to fix it, with the same part which will break again.

There are ways of detecting if a BA or BF has been edited. When you flash your car, the box will read the code in your pcm to the "f" position of the box.. Lets just say your catch code is A3LA.. If you have had your car services numerious times, you would have no doubt put the "F" code back into your PCM pre-service.

Now if Ford flash your car with say, A3LC, or A3LD, when you take ownership of the car again, you are no doubt going to over-write that with your "modified tune".

Think about what you have just done. When you revert your tune back to the "F" program again, you are going to end up with your original A3LA back on your pcm again.

The Capa Flash box does not read the entire pcm back to F every time, it only compares the VIN with the PCM, and then uploads your requested tune.

IF ford investigate by plugging their WDS back into your car, and see strategy A3LA on their screen, yet they see on a previous service, they upgraded your pcm to A3LD .. it will ring alarm bells.

Quite Simple really.