Sct New Tuning Tool From Capa - Xcal 2

[Nizpro]

As obviously a business owner, tuner and an owner of several Ford products I have some serious concerns that I have expressed with CAPA during the inception of this product. As a business owner the risks spoken about above with the customer having access to be able to modify their tunes even thou only by a small amount is simply going to cause failures in some cases. Imagine the stories that we will here, had my car custom tuned and blew it up the next day, tuners a *beep*!! We have always locked our MoTeC files to stop this happening and that has caused head aches with customs then wanted to unlock their ECU’s you simply cannot win. The flash boxes, as it stands you simply don’t have a chose, so no one complains, Perfect.

I had a customer with a Power FC on a Skyline who brought it back to me some days after tuning it running so rich it would hardly drive, he was complaining that the tune was no good or the ECU had failed, after a little look I discovered that he had changed the style of air flow meter in the program A simple press of a button and the car drove off happily again. Guess what it had a hand controller and the owner swears he had only looked at monitoring and had not touched the program. Now I don’t believe he was trying to lie to me, he simply did not relies he had changed anything. In this case there was no harm caused but if he had play with ignition trim he may have stuffed the engine. Trying to explain this to some customers with little mechanical understanding that this simple error has just caused his pocket some serious pain can be difficult at best.

Now while on other posts we keep hearing of blown engines, yet Nizpro are the only company offering an unconditional warranty for your engine and turbo for 20,000kms on our stage one kits, so you don’t hear, any of our customers complaining. So if you are one of the unfortunate people with a conrod hanging out the side of the engine imagine how relieved you would be if we had performed the work. BUT once the customer has the ability to change our tunes I believe our warranty will go the way of the dodo. Consumer looses

As a owner of Ford Turbo’s and tuner I believe it is great, although, we have the skill to use the product, lots of people out there will not and lesson’s learned way be expensive.

Pricing now this one really gets me. First of all Nizpro are known for being one if not the most expensive $995.00 for a custom tune, although it’s the same price wether we have drama with a car or not, so every customer knows where they stand.

Now to say that the LS1 guys are lucky because of price is ridiculous. Phonsy from GM Motorsport who is regarded as one of Australia’s best with these engines charges $1250 and up for a custom tune. Now I hear you say yer but that it he doesn’t need a Flash box so it’s cheaper. Correct but he and his customer have to drive Holden’s and for the same money you don’t make the same power gains. So all in all we all pay less per kw made.

As far as the Flash box being to expensive and that CAPA is ripping as all off, that is simply Bullsh*t. Tony has invested hundreds of thousands of dollars and he simply deserves a return on his money, simply as that. In my opinion he would have made a better investment by simply sticking his money in a fixed term deposit. He was the only person with the balls to take this venture on, even thou others looked at it. Every one who has one should be thanking him, like others have said, would you rather a piggy back, and most of the time these were more expensive anyway. I can sell you a MoTeC if you like at approx 6.5K. All this over a couple of hundred dollars. I don’t get it.

Now as far as VCM Suite has any one thought about why it’s a little over its 2 weeks, maybe they are still having problems, will it reduce the cost of the Flash box when released may be, may be not, competition is good as long as there is long term winners. Be carefully what you wish for. Just imagine is it reduces prices to such an extent that it is no longer viable for CAPA to service the current flash boxes out there, this product now has no one to look after it, no updates, tuners don’t want to know about it and presto all we all now have a useless piece of black plastic, now there’s a win for the consumer if every I’ve heard of one. Any way there my whinge.

On a brighter note I have asked Tony to send me all the new gear, if it arrives in time for next Saturday the 11th of November for the final round of our dyno challenge I will give a run down on all the benefits including the logging features on a car on the dyno. Hope to see you there.

[Guest]

I can sell you a MoTeC if you like at approx 6.5K. All this over a couple of hundred dollars. I don’t get it.

←

A few hundred over 1ooo unit's really add's up doesn't it, how many box's have you sold.

[Romulus]

Interesting post Simon.

However, I don't think it should concern you too much if someone else lunches an engine because they've tinkered with the car themselves. None of the car's I've tuned have ever had an engine failure, and as you may be aware, I tune these things on a part time basis. Some of the so called professionals in this field do not have the same track record. Let's not be too concerned about what an amateur might do with his own 'quick tune' software whilst some of the pro's are still struggling.

Sure, GM Motorsport may be regarded as one of the best, but Sam's Performance, HP-F, G&D and even our friend Street Tuner from LS1 Edit.com.au offer just a good level of service, at a better rate. Mail order tunes can be had from reputable tuners from as little as $250.00

The sooner another tuning product becomes available the greater the benefit for the consumer.

[Guest]

Thanks for your view Simon, as aways Im very happy to hear from you mate.

If you have some more time to waste on us, whats your take on the Live Wire, and do you think CAPA should be looking at a product like this for the Falcon instead?

[Guest]

By the way anyone thinking that a class or two run by tuning houses may be a good way to educate the customers the right way on how to use thes new products?

We don't need all the secrets just a few safty pointers.

There may even be a buck or two it that idea.

[Nizpro]

I don’t disagree of course there will be street guys that can do a good job, you are a great example of this, but we are talking about the majority not the minority and for every guy like yourself there will be 8 people [ example only] who may cause serious engine problems, keep in mind how many other system you have worked on and for how long, there will be lots out there who have zero experience. Now I’m not saying it shouldn’t be out there, I am saying I have concerns. As you say there are tuners out there that are still struggling, so this will increase if you any one can start to fiddle. We have seen examples of people blaming tuners for problems that later on turn out to be a non tuner issue.

If anyone out their wants to put their valuable Vehicle no matter what the brand and risk damage bills in the thousands of dollars in the hands of a $250 post it tune go for it. It is simply irresponsible to promote this as a good way to modify your car. The risk even is the tune itself is good leaves too many unknowns for someone to seriously consider it once ALL THE FACTS are known. Rapid for example had a near miss with engine failure and although the tune that Simon from Xtreme had sent him was fine he had a fuel pump problem that would have shown up if it had been tuned in controlled and logged conditions.

This becomes the problem you cannot say that a post it tune is good value if it causes a 5000 dollar rebuild and although this may not be the norm but it has and will happen, the guy that if left forking out the money would now wish he had been better informed with all the facts.

The other key part to custom tuning as far as the consumer is concerned is it should give them the right if any thing goes wrong to have some kind of readdress with the workshop performing the work within bounds. The $250 post tune you are on your own. Some people insure their cars some don’t either way people have the right to know all the plus’s and minus’s.

[Nizpro]

I would be happy to put together a simplified version of our training seminars that we run for workshops, if the numbers were there

[GOLDIE]

As always simon you state things clear and as they are.

Ian

[SavageF6]

Yep, can't be made much clearer than that I reckon. Must admit I wasn't aware of how much time and $ had been put into the Flash Tuners.

Edit: shpelling

Edited 02/11/06 12:52 AM by SavageD

[XRQTR]

The fuel pump issue you talk about Simon could happen as soon as the car leaves the shop, if it's going to happen it will. I understand your protecting your investment and that of your friends, as for 'post it tunes' I think it's fair to say that most people are well aware that there are risks involved in this kind of product.

As someone said there are 'backyard tuners' out their doing a better job than some of the so called 'pros', so whether you go in house or via e-mail the risks are their regardless.

I think what most people here are saying is that the sooner that the distributors realise and start listening to what the majority want the better of we will all be, that is distibutors, tuners and consumers. I dare say that CAPA by now have made a return on there initial investment with the number of boxes out their so might want to start looking at increasing sales. The easiest way they can do that is to drop the price of the box, especially as it will soon be superceded otherwise they will be stuck with a bigger loss than they might by simply taking off another couple of hundred dollars.

As I say I understand that someone has made an investment, but lets leave the banks and mining to be greedy, after all we are all here to help aren't we. I run my own business and often have to work at a lower rate just to secure regular work and I have also invested a substantial amount of money in order to make it happen. I will even be willing to bet that even you would rather use the $30 towie that drives the $5000 imported truck with no transit/goods insurance rather than someone like me that has spent alot of money on licences and insurances, all just to save a few dollars and increase your bottom line. I'm sorry but I'm sick and tired of workshops whining about costs and then having a go at the punters when they say the same.

I'm sitting in front of the computer now simply because I refuse to do the 'cheap' tows and would rather not even start the truck just to hear workshop owners whinge about pricing, just like yourself and other workshop owner/operators I did it to make a living as well as trying to help enthusiasts. Even though I'm specifically set up for lowered cars and racers, I often find myself doing these at my regular rate, why, because until they see how much effort goes into picking up a lowered car they don't appreciate the work involved. And guess what they still complain about the price even though they tell me what a great job I did and that they are rapped there is no damage to there car going on.

I could go on but I think I've said more than enough for now, maybe more than I should, but that's life.

edit - side note- the reason for my rant is because I have walked away from 2 very good clients in the last couple of weeks for just this reason, they are both doing well and yet still complain that I don't look after them as much as I should, even though they charge the customer and don't actually pay themselves. To top it off they add there own little fee on top, so this makes it hard for them to make some money off my back.

Edited 02/11/06 01:11 AM by XRQTR