Speed Limits Based On The 85th Percentile

[Panda]

...There are more practical idea's than a track day, which really, wouldn't do much for on road skills anyway...

I reckon a spid pan can train far better than a track as such

Panda

[Falchoon]

But I was referring to Ross's suggestion of a track day

Hey Captain Grammer, it's actually Ross'!

I guess I didn't really consider people living in remote areas when I posted my original comments regarding track days. Maybe the Govt could fly/bus/train remote area people to the nearest track, they could afford it easily, after all they get plenty of money from traffic/parking fines...

Over time more tracks or "Driver Education Facilities" could be built as funds and suitable areas are found. They could be hired out by other community groups such as car clubs when they aren't being used for licence testing purposes and this money can go towards transporting potential licencees to their track day or building more facilities.

[tmac450]

You have to be kidding if you think that better driver education won't help.  Take a look at countries that have started proper driver training courses.  Their road tolls have dropped, in the meantime, ours increase.  Obviously you can't teach a simpleton quantim physics, but you will be able to improve drovong skills and attitudes for the majority.

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Proper driver education courses? Most definately! But I was referring to Ross's suggestion of a track day presided over by John Bowe or similar. A single day would just not be enough and there just isn't enough track's that EVERYBODY can easily get to, let alone have decent length courses run.

I think alot needs to be looked into the actual licensing tests. They should be much more like the Motorbike test's rather than a simple 'How well can you reverse park test'. Which is pretty much all that are at the moment.

A girl who lived in the little town where I had my shop had failed her Red P's test 7 times and on the 8th go the instructor actually said to her; "I don't want to pass you, your just not confident on the road, but you have got the ticks and I have to let you through"...On the way home FROM THE TEST, a semi came up behind her, she freaked out and pulled off the road at speed. Wrote the car off. She and her mum were ok.

Where's the logic to that?

Bringing failed communistic ideals of equality into a safety argument is just plain dumb .

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It's not a matter of equality. It's basic practicality, what can wash for people in one area might just not be accessible or practical for another lot. Should they be unnecessarily disadvantaged due to their location?

Lumpy

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So we're basically on the same chapter here, but you seem to have jumped ahead a page and gone into the practicalities. Obviously we need better driver training, and the motorbike course is a good start (although very limited and far too simple), it has shown a drop in rider fatalities.

Driver training doesn't have to be conducted on a track. I can be done in a car park, air strip or closed section of road. I doesn't have to involve lap times or corner apexing, but should include basic survival skills such a correct braking and steering techniques (in the UK it has long been a part of the licence test for the applicant to have to sucessfully pass an emergency stop test).

I certainly agree it can't be completed in one day and to overcome this there should be various levels to go through. At the moment you only have to passa practical test and you are allowed to drive on the road without any real instructions on how to drive a car, the learner must learn these new skills in traffic which is "impractical" for the rest of the road users. There should not only be certain levels to pass for each licence stage, but there should also be licence levels needed to pass before certain car can be driven (spending 3 years driving a 3 cylinder, front driving Daihatsu does nothing to give the driver the skills to be able to jump straight into a 300kw V8 with rear wheel drive).

Sorry, but a system that truly educated drivers will be "impractical" for everyone and so what. As far as those in isolated areas goes, I've spent most of my live living on farms in rural areas and it simply becomes a part of life (also there is always a solution for everything).

[Romulus]

the speed 85% of people are comfortable travelling at?

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Close. Take a look at http://www.dma.org/~ganotedp/85th.htm

I have a great interest in flying and commercial aviation. I've never flown with a disabled pilot/co-pilot at the controls, but have to share the road with disabled drivers As harsh as it sounds, I question the logic of people driving with the inability to quickly react (both physically and mentally) to road conditions and other hazards that can crop up from nowhere. If it's the choice between their freedom and liberties or the safety of other road users - safety comes first, every time.

Driver standards should be raised to the same level as one trying to obtain a pilot's (ppl) licence.

Edited 31/10/06 01:52 PM by M6 XR6T

[tmac450]

the speed 85% of people are comfortable travelling at?

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Close. Take a look at http://www.dma.org/~ganotedp/85th.htm

I have a great interest in flying and commercial aviation. I've never flown with a disabled pilot/co-pilot at the controls, but have to share the road with disabled drivers As harsh as it sounds, I question the logic of people driving with the inability to quickly react (both physically and mentally) to road conditions and other hazards that can crop up from nowhere. If it's the choice between their freedom and liberties or the safety of other road users - safety comes first, every time.

Driver standards should be raised to the same level as one trying to obtain a pilot's (ppl) licence.

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Well put

[ZAP]

Agreed

I do not see why it is hard to keep a car in a lane, use indicators and look further up the road than 6ft from the bonnet.

I believe we need mandatory driving/rules tests every 5 years.

This would ensure that people know that a unbroken line is not to be crossed, or that a no stopping zone means NO F..KING STOPPING.

Driving is a privilage that should be respected and continually improved, not a right.

First thing that should be done is ban all the foreign language test for licenses, if you cannot speak or read english, you should not be on the road. Catch a bus.

[seventytwo]

Agreed

First thing that should be done is ban all the foreign language test for licenses, if you cannot speak or read english, you should not be on the road.  Catch a bus.

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Bus, your spot on there, If this law was brought in you would not be catching a taxi that's for sure.

[Guest newl]

Agreed

I do not see why it is hard to keep a car in a lane, use indicators and look further up the road than 6ft from the bonnet.

I typically drive with the knowledge of what's at least 100 meters in front of me with a visual scan of my mirrors every 8-10 seconds to know my surroundings. These good habits were taught to me in a driving class that we had to attend (yearly refreshers) when I was working for one of the large telcos back in the U.S.

I believe we need mandatory driving/rules tests every 5 years.

Agreed.

This would ensure that people know that a unbroken line is not to be crossed, or that a no stopping zone means NO F..KING STOPPING.

Maybe 'stopping' should be properly defined on the tests that have to be sat. Both those examples bug the piss out of me as well.

<snip>

First thing that should be done is ban all the foreign language test for licenses, if you cannot speak or read english, you should not be on the road.  Catch a bus.

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It'd probably help if all our signs reflected the same and were consistent. Dunno about on your side of the island but over here for example, we've got red light cameras that have signs that read, "Red Light <picture of camera>". Oooookay, and for those that cannot read English and do not come from a place where red light cameras are common to know what the camera implies? hrmf

[Lumpen]

I typically drive with the knowledge of what's at least 100 meters in front of me with a visual scan of my mirrors every 8-10 seconds to know my surroundings.  These good habits were taught to me in a driving class that we had to attend (yearly refreshers) when I was working for one of the large telcos back in the U.S.

One of my uncles grew up in Ohio and while he was a school, he chose to do a long term driving course instead of sport or something like that. Basically, they drove around the place with a teacher and also on school grounds, goofed off and bought donuts. But it was about a 6 month thing and they learnt a fair bit. When he got his license the insurance companies actually acknowledged this and he got a discount right from the start.

I don't know if this is still the case over there however. Perhaps a similar thing here could be the answer?

I believe there needs to be an incentive though, at the moment there is no incentive that people my age are interested in (ie-money) to learn to drive better. You can go and do advanced driver courses and the like til they fall out of your ear and still not get a pinch of acknowledgment or a discount from an insurer!

In the time I've had my license, which is 5 years including P's, I've done near enough to 150,000km with no accidents, tickets or anything else, but I'm regarded exactly the same as some kid who lives in the city and does 10,000km a year.

Lumpy

[LeighD]

I did a few units in highway design when I was at uni (Civil Engineering) and it suprised me to know that roads are designed with the 85th percentile in mind. Say for instance that a particular section of road is known to have 85% of drivers travelling at atleast 100km/hr (regardless of what the speed limit is) then the road is designed accordingly. Given the location, often the opportunity to change the radius of the bends etc does not exist so instead, the camber is essentially designed to prevent sliding around the corner at that speed. Also, hills and sightlines are designed in accordance with the reaction and stopping distance at the 85th percentile speed.

So basically, our roads are often designed for us to travle at this speed, yet artificially low speed limits are imposed.