Panda Member 225 Member For: 20y 7m 18d Gender: Male Location: Gladstone, QLD Posted 30/10/06 08:14 AM Author Share Posted 30/10/06 08:14 AM Unfortunately the 'big picture' that the government is looking at has lots of dollar signs in it.Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpen Poison Fish. Poison Fish. TASTY FISH!!! Donating Members 5,181 Member For: 21y 8m 15d Gender: Male Location: The Bogan Shire Posted 30/10/06 08:27 AM Share Posted 30/10/06 08:27 AM Learner should also attend a compulsary track day with accredited driver such as Warren Luff or John Bowe (just two examples, plenty of others around) similar to what you get when you buy a new HSV or FPV.←Nearest Track to me, in NSW (where I got my L's) would be somewhere down near Sydney...That'd be REAL practical Lumpy ←Is the issue road safety or inconveniencing a few people. I think we need to look at the bigger picture here. ←It's called practicality mate. If the only way you can get a license is to go to a track and do a certified course, you rule out almost everybody outside of greater Sydney.There's still about 1 and a half million people living outside Sydney/Gong/Newcastle area. That's more than 'a few', unless of course, it's all paid for, even for the blokes out near Cameron's Corner? Can you imagine the excess lining of the pockets for people who provide the billet's and the courses? Just like all this propaganda and the advertising that's being spewed out by John's Mates!There are more practical idea's than a track day, which really, wouldn't do much for on road skills anyway...Lumpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmac450 Member 1,650 Member For: 18y 2m 26d Gender: Male Location: NSW Posted 30/10/06 09:55 AM Share Posted 30/10/06 09:55 AM Learner should also attend a compulsary track day with accredited driver such as Warren Luff or John Bowe (just two examples, plenty of others around) similar to what you get when you buy a new HSV or FPV.←Nearest Track to me, in NSW (where I got my L's) would be somewhere down near Sydney...That'd be REAL practical Lumpy ←Is the issue road safety or inconveniencing a few people. I think we need to look at the bigger picture here. ←It's called practicality mate. If the only way you can get a license is to go to a track and do a certified course, you rule out almost everybody outside of greater Sydney.There's still about 1 and a half million people living outside Sydney/Gong/Newcastle area. That's more than 'a few', unless of course, it's all paid for, even for the blokes out near Cameron's Corner? Can you imagine the excess lining of the pockets for people who provide the billet's and the courses? Just like all this propaganda and the advertising that's being spewed out by John's Mates!There are more practical idea's than a track day, which really, wouldn't do much for on road skills anyway...Lumpy ←No one said anything about what it would cost or who would pay it.As the moment our roads are overpopulated with under educated, unworthy drivers. Raising the bar for education as well as cost will definately help that. Those not close to a track could be subsidised, but we simply can't forgo real driver education for fear if putting a few noses out of joint.Incidentally, who says the course has to be in a city. There are hundreds of venues all over the country as well as more than enough drivers willing and able to conduct the courses. On top of that, city dwellers would be just as inconvienenced as there are no venues is built up areas, they are all in regional/rural locations.You have to be kidding if you think that better driver education won't help. Take a look at countries that have started proper driver training courses. Their road tolls have dropped, in the meantime, ours increase. Obviously you can't teach a simpleton quantim physics, but you will be able to improve drovong skills and attitudes for the majority.I'm not saying the answer is cut and dry, but there are some pretty straightforward solutions that can make a difference almost immediatly.Bringing failed communistic ideals of equality into a safety argument is just plain dumb . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tab Sucker Moderating Team 32,303 Member For: 20y 7m 5d Gender: Male Location: Brisbane Posted 30/10/06 08:53 PM Share Posted 30/10/06 08:53 PM Bringing failed communistic ideals of equality into a safety argument is just plain dumb .←I see you're relatively new in these parts though....you'll get used to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumpen Poison Fish. Poison Fish. TASTY FISH!!! Donating Members 5,181 Member For: 21y 8m 15d Gender: Male Location: The Bogan Shire Posted 31/10/06 04:29 AM Share Posted 31/10/06 04:29 AM You have to be kidding if you think that better driver education won't help. Take a look at countries that have started proper driver training courses. Their road tolls have dropped, in the meantime, ours increase. Obviously you can't teach a simpleton quantim physics, but you will be able to improve drovong skills and attitudes for the majority.←Proper driver education courses? Most definately! But I was referring to Ross's suggestion of a track day presided over by John Bowe or similar. A single day would just not be enough and there just isn't enough track's that EVERYBODY can easily get to, let alone have decent length courses run.I think alot needs to be looked into the actual licensing tests. They should be much more like the Motorbike test's rather than a simple 'How well can you reverse park test'. Which is pretty much all that are at the moment. A girl who lived in the little town where I had my shop had failed her Red P's test 7 times and on the 8th go the instructor actually said to her; "I don't want to pass you, your just not confident on the road, but you have got the ticks and I have to let you through"...On the way home FROM THE TEST, a semi came up behind her, she freaked out and pulled off the road at speed. Wrote the car off. She and her mum were ok.Where's the logic to that?Bringing failed communistic ideals of equality into a safety argument is just plain dumb .←It's not a matter of equality. It's basic practicality, what can wash for people in one area might just not be accessible or practical for another lot. Should they be unnecessarily disadvantaged due to their location? Lumpy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxx Colossal Member Member 5,049 Member For: 20y 3m 6d Gender: Male Location: Perth, WA Posted 31/10/06 04:46 AM Share Posted 31/10/06 04:46 AM Nope still dont get it... 85th percentile of what exactly???Speed limits on roads must be set by a number of factors including road surface, light conditions, width, houses, bends, schools, pedestrians... I'm sure the list goes on... so 85% of what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCRIBR Yaris member Member 4,486 Member For: 18y 5m 9d Gender: Male Posted 31/10/06 04:51 AM Share Posted 31/10/06 04:51 AM the speed 85% of people are comfortable travelling at? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxx Colossal Member Member 5,049 Member For: 20y 3m 6d Gender: Male Location: Perth, WA Posted 31/10/06 05:06 AM Share Posted 31/10/06 05:06 AM And how do they determine that?I have never been surveyed as to how fast I feel comfortable travelling along the freeway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
replicant Member 180 Member For: 19y 21d Posted 31/10/06 05:43 AM Share Posted 31/10/06 05:43 AM Firstly, definitions the 85th percentile is a statistical term and it represents in this case the speed that 85% of the sample were under - it other words only 15% of drivers observed in the sample exceeded the 85th percentile speed. There are few important things to note the first is the veracity of the sample to the population - the 85th percentile applies to all vehicles and it is a sample at a certain place, certain time and with certain factors present. If you took the sample during peak hour during a long weekend on the Spit Bridge with a number of marked police cars present on the side of the road, then you are likely to get a different result than at say 2am on a Tuesday morning with a hidden camera.Samples can be done with a radar equipped marked police car, traffic counters (those hoses run across the road) or even a hidden camera and a radar gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Member 225 Member For: 20y 7m 18d Gender: Male Location: Gladstone, QLD Posted 31/10/06 05:48 AM Author Share Posted 31/10/06 05:48 AM Nope still dont get it... 85th percentile of what exactly???If the speed of one hundred vehicles was recorded and those speeds where arranged from fastest to slowest - the speed of the vehicle in positon 85 is the 85th Percentile.These speeds have to be recorded in normal circumstances (average day, average traffic, no visable police prescence etc)Panda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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