Ford Wants Us To Edit

[Guest FatBAt]

Sorry if my 1st post wasn't clear enough. I thought I was!

If Ford used a connector that was protected by a worldwide paten, then noone else can commecially use it. If no-one else can commercially use it, then there is no aftermarket flash units.

Like I said, it wouldn't stop the backyarders....but I wouldn't let one touch my car anyways.

Some of you might remember a long time ago that Ford wanted to make their own parts like radiator and fuel caps that had a unique pattened fitting.

Cheers

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Because it goes against anti competetion laws. GM tried it in the US and got sued because non GM garages couldn't use it, so they claimed they were being forced out of work. GM then had to go back to a common type so backyarders and non GM businesses could use it.

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..... I guess Venom for the same reason, that's why they use a standard connector. I guess if there was a way Ford (or any manufacture for that matter) could use a unique part that stops third parties getting some action, they would use it. As did GM in USA. Albeit backfiring on them.

Cheers

[Guest FatBAt]

Isn't that kind of like saying that TV manufacturer's want you to test your own CRT in the TV because they use Phillip's Head Screw in the back?

Lumpy

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Which really brings me to the question.

Did Phillip really make any money from his screws? I mean, what sort of a claim to fame is that?

at a party

"....and what do you do for crust Phil?"

"I put crosses on screws"

and something else........

What came 1st....the Phillips head screw........or the Phillips head driver.... That'll go down with the chicken and the egg I'll bet.

Sorry guys...got home early today and I clealy have too much time on my hands.

Cheers

[iTec]

Isn't that kind of like saying that TV manufacturer's want you to test your own CRT in the TV because they use Phillip's Head Screw in the back?

Lumpy

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Which really brings me to the question.

Did Phillip really make any money from his screws? I mean, what sort of a claim to fame is that?

at a party

"....and what do you do for crust Phil?"

"I put crosses on screws"

and something else........

What came 1st....the Phillips head screw........or the Phillips head driver.... That'll go down with the chicken and the egg I'll bet.

Sorry guys...got home early today and I clealy have too much time on my hands.

Cheers

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no need to appologise that's had me in stitches for the last 5 minutes

[Headsex]

Ask yourself this... Why are companies like SCT the only company able to reprogram these vehicles..

It all comes down to the Security behind the CAN protocol.. namely the Seed/Key algorithm they use to "enable" reflashing.

For comparison, the LS1 PCM has a 4 byte Seed and key, and its a static seed. Ie, the seed and key are hard coded in the flash.

So, for every seed, there is 1 out of 65535 chance of getting the correct key response to unlock it.

The Blackoak Ford PCM uses a 6 byte Rolling seed / key algorithm.

that's 16,777,215 possibilities.. yes. 16 million.

If you get it wrong, the PCM presents you with a different seed. So realistically, you have 1 in 281,474,943,156,225 chance in getting it right..

How did they do it?

My guess is that they "sniffed" a ford pcm flash routine done by a WDS unit or the likes, and reverse engineered the binary file back into asm. They would have traced through the program until they discovered the seed / key algorithm. Not for the faint hearted..

So.. Having a Standard connector, or a newly pateted connector would not stop anybody. By law, all cars will need to be fitted with a OBD2 connector to allow Diagnostic tools to be plugged in.

d.

Edited 13/10/06 12:56 PM by Headsex

[Guest FatBAt]

Thanks for that Headsex

Based on your post, it does seem rather bazaare that only 1 company in the world have come up with a edit solution.

One thing though that you maybe able to answer.

What about the xede? Doesn't their product change the codes too on no fewer than 9 manufactures. Surely they wouldn't have "sniffed" the routines from all 9.

Even though the xede is hardwired, it still changes the computer codes, or at least masks them. I'm thinking the only way to do that is to actally know the codes.

I don't doubt what you say about sct. In fact, it sounds very probable. What is confusing though is why Ford didn't stop it.

Ford have gone to such great lengths to stop the gurus from cracking their codes but when they did, Ford has just let it happen. Especially from a 2 bit company (compared to Ford) like sct.

Cheers

Edited 13/10/06 08:03 PM by FatBAt

[jetute]

Thanks for that Headsex

Based on your post, it does seem rather bazaare that only 1 company in the world have come up with a edit solution.

Cheers

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SCT is not the only company that can reprogram these computers. There is another aussie tuner that can repgram the factory computer by drilling a small hole into the pcm and connecting his lappie to it. Basically does the same thing as sct via his lap top directly into the pcm

[937]

Isn't the UBD-11 connector used because it is part of the EURO3 compliance?

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It's OBD 2

We don't have a street directory under our dash.. lol.

And yes, all cars by 2008 will be OBD 2.

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Re : All cars by 2008 will be OBD 2.

OBD2-CAN

CAN, or CAN Bus, is the abbreviated term for Controller Area Network. It is a serial communications bus for real-time control applications with communication speed of up to 1 Megabits per second and has excellent error detection and confinement capabilities. In other words, this is the latest and greatest technology in vehicles today. In fact, several 2003 and 2004 vehicle manufacturers including Toyota, Ford, Mazda, and others already have this system in place. Just like OBD 2 was mandated to be on all vehicles since 1996, CAN Bus will be required to be on all vehicles from 2008 forward. Why is CAN important?

Today's vehicles have become so "computerized" that in order to communicate effectively and efficiently between the vehicle's numerous systems, sensors and controllers, manufacturers needed a new system to reduce the increasing cost and physical size of the wiring harnesses required to interconnect these systems. In addition to the cost, the increased number of connections presented serious reliability, fault diagnosis, and repair problems during manufacturing and vehicle servicing.

The solution was presented and adopted from the Robert Bosch Company back in the mid 1980's. During that time, CAN bus was mainly used for highly sophisticated industrial machines, but by the early 1990's, car manufacturers saw it as a way to help with their communication challenges.

For several years, car manufacturers have only had the option from selecting from four communication protocols: ISO 9141, J1850PWM, J1850VPW, KWP 2000 / ISO 14230-4. The CAN system provided car manufacturers a new high-speed connection, usually 50 to 100 times faster than the typical communication protocols, and reduced the number of connections required to communicate between their systems. At the same time, CAN provided diagnostic tool manufacturers a way to speed up communication between the vehicle and their tool. Technicians will love this technology because the increased communication speed will in the future allow technicians through their scan tool to view data close to real-time, just as they view sensor data today with their lab scopes.

The CAN standard has been incorporated into the OBD 2 specifications by the International Standards Organization (ISO) committee and is specified under the ISO 11898 (Road Vehicles - Controller Area Network) and defined under ISO 15765 (vehicle diagnostic systems) documents. The California Air Resources Board (CARB) accepts these ISO standards because it helps meet its mission to regulate and reduce vehicle emissions. Since 2003 several car manufacturers have already implemented it into their vehicles, but CARB has mandated that by 2008 all model vehicles sold in the United States will be required to have it.

Vehicles With CAN

2003 Models

* Ford F-250

* Ford F-350

* Ford Focus

* Ford Thunderbird

* Lincoln LS

* Mazda 6

* Porsche Cayenne

* SAAB 9-3

* Saturn ION

2004 Models

* Buick Rendezvous

* Cadillac CTS

* Cadillac SRX

* Cadillac XLR

* Dodge Durango

* Ford E-250

* Ford E-350

* Ford Excursion

* Ford Explorer

* Ford F150

* Ford F-250

* Ford F-350

* Ford Focus

* Ford Taurus

* Ford Thunderbird

* Lexus LS430

* Lincoln LS

* Mazda 3

* Mazda 6

* Mazda RX-8

* Mercury Sable

* Porsche Cayenne

* SAAB 9-3

* Saturn ION

* Toyota Prius

And our Ford Falcon from BA on

Edited 13/10/06 09:05 PM by 937

[Headsex]

Thanks for that Headsex

Based on your post, it does seem rather bazaare that only 1 company in the world have come up with a edit solution.

One thing though that you maybe able to answer.

What about the xede? Doesn't their product change the codes too on no fewer than 9 manufactures. Surely they wouldn't have "sniffed" the routines from all 9.

Even though the xede is hardwired, it still changes the computer codes, or at least masks them. I'm thinking the only way to do that is to actally know the codes.

I don't doubt what you say about sct. In fact, it sounds very probable. What is confusing though is why Ford didn't stop it.

Ford have gone to such great lengths to stop the gurus from cracking their codes but when they did, Ford has just let it happen. Especially from a 2 bit company (compared to Ford) like sct.

Cheers

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There is only SCT who have included the Australian cars. There are a handful of american companies who also reprogram using the obd2 port.

the XEDE is just a signal bender. doesnt actually modify the PCM in anyway.. Very limited in what they do.

My assumption is that the Edit related warentee claims are low. And regardless on how tight security lengths they go to, someone will still hack it.

Danny.

[Headsex]

SCT is not the only company that can reprogram these computers. There is another aussie tuner that can repgram the factory computer by drilling a small hole into the pcm and connecting his lappie to it. Basically does the same thing as sct via his lap top directly into the pcm

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Yes, in NSW, forgot the company name now. But I was referring to reflashing via the obd2 port. This company most likey uses the BDM interface to reflash the rom.. hense bypassing the security on the obd2 port.

d.

[Fat-Tony]

Slightly off topic, but a member of FoMoCo has told me that their last flash update allows them to see if the car is edited. Apparently it throws a couple of error codes which is the give away.