'self Learning' Ecu

[hsv eater]

That sounds like it's on FatBat.

You'll be able to tell the difference doing exactly that, particularly if the car is a daily driver which is in traffic most of the time.

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tell me,how can you do that if you have changed to bigger injectors

[Paul@eliteauto]

leaving knock sensors off is asking for trouble in my opinion.

I turn them off when tuning and back on after.

Fuel can vary from fill to fill.

Last thing I want is a customer to stuff his engine.

It great to chase big numbers but crap rebuilding an engine and I dont think the average bloke would disagree.

[Nizpro]

Adam has asked me to reply to this question as I had not seen it. So I will try to do so in plan English. You also need to keep in mind that there are hundreds of other factors that effect the daily running of you individually vehicles, so this may not totally explain all the issue you are talking about, but it will explain how the system is designed to work.

First of all the adaptive learning is for closed loop fuel control. It has been designed for two reasons mainly and they are. The first is so that standard cars with slight manufacturing difference’s all learn to control their closed loop systems to function correctly and keep in accordance to emission standards. The second is that over time [100,000 kms] these system will experience drift. Examples would be fuel filters, fuel pumps and fuel injectors that no longer work exactly as they did when new, so the system can continually correct for these changes.

Now the system does have a table that you can activate for this correction. This table looks at the correction feed back from the 02 sensor and applies it to the close loop portion of running , you do also have the chose, if you would like to apply it to the open loop part of the engines running. EG: full throttle and this is up to the tuner.

There is absolutely no reason to turn this table off as it will have no effect on full power if tuned correctly and it will help fuel economy. There may be reasons to turn it off while tuning in certain circumstances, but again it should be turned back on.

Now the Knock control learning is an entirely difference set of tables and is not effected by the Adaptive fuel table. It has both slow learning and instant knock control. The instant is for quick ignition retard when the engine believes knock is presant, this is what I suspect RAPID sees with his comment about his Atomic engine and the noise from the forged pistons. You see the knock control system is basically a microphone sensor that finds it difficult to distinguish between mechanical engine noise [ forged pistons ] and engine detonation so the more mechanically noisy your engine is the less effective your knock control will work. So if the PCM is continually seeing what it thinks is Knock then it will slowly subtract ignition timing from the long tern knock control. This may be what you are seeing when you disconnect the battery and then re upload a file. At this point the long term knock will reset to zero and presto car goes fast again.

There is also 3D tables for knock sensitivity based on load and rpm so as you can fine tune the knock sensor or sensors, this can be done for every cylinder. This is very difficult and we have only had success with custom built engines, now you have proberly guessed why I have been doing so much work with quieting engines over the last 12 months. Even factory engine suffer from this effect although to a lesser degree, it then become an issue of how you set your knock control up to control the ignition settings within the boundaries of that particular engine. Again this is why custom tuning is so important

So the bottom line is that once all these and many other areas are fully understood by your tuner then it there is no reason to start turning off all these great functions, it is also the reason why aftermarket system to not stand a chance against the factory control system, if this was the case we could all go back to a Holley and dissy.

[jordak]

A great read, thanks for taking the time

[spine]

Quality information!

[Adam]

Quality information!

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Thanks Simon!

[SavageF6]

Crikey, it really reminds be of how much I DONT KNOW when I read stuff like that. Thanks Simon.

[O2STOCK]

Thanks Simon great info

[XR6Tlazyshift]

I spotted thread here on ECU edits, knocking etc. I had a chip mod installed (installed by Ford Dealer - chip mod brand 'x' for now....) which resulted 6 months later in a TOTAL ENGINE rebuild due to pinging. My car is company owned & I am an 'older' :yuck2: family man and although a spirited driver the car NEVER copped a flogging. Intially after edit, cold air induction and larger exhaust system the performance picked up markedly at 8psi. No traction control though (light flashed then gave up), good additional boost at 3000rpm. 2nd edit - 10PSI same as above with additional punch at 4000rpm, man did it go......for about 2 months. Then, performance very patchy and whammo - dead engine, bent rods, cracked piston and bits through the lot. Ford would not honour any warranty on the engine (fair enough, not their mod), left between Dealer / chip modder / and me. Dealer very good although I was still out of pocket nearly 2k + hire car for two months while the problem was sorted out. Moral to the story? Others can shed light here !! I never got a 'full' story.........still considering what happens now. Car back on road, factory setting during run-in car is now substantially smoother than before. Just a heads up for the uninitiated. Chip modders may be able to shed some more light.....kinda dark from where I sit

[F6 RAPID]

Custom Tune required - not generic out of the box.