'self Learning' Ecu

[bugster70]

Don’t know if this has been asked before but I can’t find anything through the search function so here goes.

Does anyone know what effect, if any, the supposedly ‘self learning’ ECU in the T has on new Edit tunes? Thankfully it’s becoming a rarer occurrence these days, but there used to be quite a few stories about guys getting new, more powerful Edit tunes that started off running well but later developed issues, such as pinging. I was wondering whether this could be partly due to the ECU making subtle changes as it got to ‘learn’ the new map, driving style, etc?

It may well be the case that the more accomplished tuners out there know about any such effects and already take this into account when writing new tunes – would any of those tuners care to comment?

Assuming the ECU does have some sort of effect, then what are the implications for tuning? I mean, I’ve heard that you’re supposed to drive around ‘normally’ for a minimum period of time after uploading a new tune to allow the ECU to ‘adapt’ before giving it some curry. If this is true, then what happens if you load up a new tune, whack it on the dyno, give it curry almost straight away, then make adjustments accordingly and repeat the process until you have a ‘safe’ tune? Once you’ve driven off with your brand new tune and the ECU does it’s thing, will that tune change after the ECU’s had some time to adapt?

Any views or insight would be greatly appreciated!

[jordak]

Good question Bugster and one that I would like to hear Tuners comments on.

For what it's worth I think "Tunes" do change over time dependant on driving styles I.e putt around for a week or so and the car seems to get lazy. Unplug the ECU overnight, give it a bit of what for and it feels like a new car.

Be nice to hear some cold hard facts to back that theory up though.

[RAPHOON]

Then answer is fairly straightforward.

The edit software has a switch in one of the tables to either keep adaptive learning on, or switch it off. It is up to the tuner/customer to determine which way they wish to proceed.

Mine's off.

[bugster70]

Thanks for that info Raphoon, I certainly didn't know that. The obvious follow-on question then is, do any tuners leave the adaptive learning function turned on and, if so, why? For those that don't, why not?

[jordak]

Thanks for that info Raphoon, I certainly didn't know that. The obvious follow-on question then is, do any tuners leave the adaptive learning function turned on and, if so, why? For those that don't, why not?

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In my case the Tuner turned off the adaptive learning whilst tuning and then turned it back on afterwards. In his opinion leaving the adaptive off was asking for trouble as the ECU could not make slight adjustments to fuel / spark if car was leaning out for whatever reason I.e load / bad fuel etc.

As for the benefit of leaving the adaptive learning off I'll hand over to the floor..........

[SavageF6]

I believe wog sometimes turns it off so that his tunes are essentially 'doing what he told them to'. Makes sense, though I'm sure there are equally good arguments for the opposite.

Is timing retardation (as a result of say pinging due due bad fuel etc) tied to the self learning switch?

For example, say your tune has 'learning' switched off so it doesn't lean the mixure, will timing still be retarded if the engine detects knock?

Yeah I'm gonna yield to the floor as well...

[2fardown]

My race tune has all the timing retard / knock prevention turned off due to the knock sensors being too sensitive.

If this is turned off and you have a bad batch of fuel it's asking for trouble...

[SavageF6]

Agreed. I've been told you can turn the knock sensors off - I just want to make sure that its a seperate switch to the one that turns the ecu learning off (ie the switch that prevents the ecu altering the mixture)?

To my non-tuner mind, knock sensing/timing retard switched ON, with ECU learning (mixture fiddling) switched OFF, seems fine as long as your tuner has looked after you with safe AFRs etc.

[F6 RAPID]

Just re-flash it every week to make sure.

Interesting on the Knock sensors though. I need to have mine turned off I think as the Atomic engine with forged pistons is a little loud and the knock sensors I believe are thinking the engine noise is pinging.................. That is why my thing seems to go better when it is really hot - go figure.

[RAPHOON]

Agreed. I've been told you can turn the knock sensors off - I just want to make sure that its a seperate switch to the one that turns the ecu learning off (ie the switch that prevents the ecu altering the mixture)?

To my non-tuner mind, knock sensing/timing retard switched ON, with ECU learning (mixture fiddling) switched OFF, seems fine as long as your tuner has looked after you with safe AFRs etc.

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I believe these are 2 separate and distinct functions.

Can one of the tuners confirm this...