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How To Wreck A Brand New Atomic Motor


F6 RAPID

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  exahsix said:
  FSIX said:
F6 Rapid, bad luck mate...your misfortune may save others from the same fate...I hope it all goes well for you and your car in the future.

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Walbo pumps guy's be carful who you buy them off, no more ebay pumps, these guys say there genuine (it bullsh!t) there paying $50 for a box of pumps and putting them in there own packaging.

Only 2 weeks back we had one fitted to a BF F6 car was tuned everything was fine, but then every time the owner went for a drive after 60 mins or so the car would surge for fuel, once the pump was cold it would be ok for a period of time then play up again.

We purchased the same model pump from a reputable dealer cost was $80 more but the result was no more surge.

the ebay seller is worried now he has all these pumps out there they may fail. he gave me an appoligy and 100% of our money back.

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The surge tank I had fitted to my car holds around 3.5 litres this is sufficient for my 1/4 mile run.

these can be setup with bigger lines, raising rate fuel regulator or which ever way you wish, it also has an outlet for future scope should you wish to change the fuel setup at a later date.

I had the shops name who done this work posted but it was removed since then I have had many PM's asking me who did the tank... the guy is extremely busy he works flat out on basically a one man show, he isn't cheap, and its not for everyone..some didn't like where it was where it was fitted.

link here:

http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/index.ph...topic=27887&hl=

  F6 RAPID said:
  SPIKO said:
  F6 RAPID said:
Good call Spiko. I would visit you mate but you are too far away!!

However, I will heed your advice. The Bosch044 we were intending on using is definitely going back to the swirl pot with the return. I was going to leave the in-tank Walbro where it is to feed the pot - you are suggesting that maybe this one should be changed?

And Dave, $$$ I hear you..............

Iff you leave the swirl pot size at 2 Litres I would suggest a higher volume pump to feed the swirl pot on 400+ rwkw applications.

An easier way to avoid the cost of an extra pump is to build a larger swirl pot.

I suggest 3 litres as a minimum if you are retaining the standard in tank pump.

Regards

Spiko

Thanks for the info mate - will heed the advice.

3 litres it is.

OK guys, I don't get it - I have looked through the thread attached and seen the swirl pot that you've fitted. Whilst it looks like a premo job, it's just another fuel tank at the back of the car....

I thought the job of a swirl tank was to have an amount of fuel (say 3 litres) always handy to the injectors and with enough capacity so they can't run dry. A 3 litre aluminium tank at the back of the car seems to me a way around having to engineer the normal fuel tank and supply lines properly and hence deliver the goods.

Wouldn't the best way of running a swirl pot be to have it mounted on the chassis rail near the firewall, real close to where the injector rail is? That way it doesn't need to travel up and down the length of the car..... The standard tank and higher capacity pump can feed the swirl pot, then that uses a motorsport pump to feed the injector rail....

I'm just thinking out loud here guys, of course Spiko and Rapid and others have done this in the real world - I'll be guided by your experience.

A swirl pot wont supply more fuel!

The addition of a second fuel pump will enable the system to flow a higher volume of fuel as the first pump supplies volume and the second supplies pressure.

getting back to it the swirl pot is there for one reason and one only! To prevent the fuel pickup from running out of fuel due to high G forces from either accelleration or high cornering forces pushing fuel to the back front or sides away from your fuel pickup. This is why they are normally taller than wider.

If you guys are having fuel supply issues on the dyno at higher revs the only reason a swirl pot will help you is because you are adding a second fuel pump giving you a higher flow rate, oh and if you guys are running a swirl pot in line using the original, walbro etc intank only you are band-aiding your problem

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Nothing to do with a problem on the dyno - was never discussed??

Anyway, had a look in all pots with an endoscope and it seems all okay. Put 6 new plugs in 'er and went to see my buddy who knows much more than me. Bottom line, all is good. Went and gave her a bootful in third and she fries the tyres as good as ever fishtailing down the road nicely.

I just won't be doing the 3rd to 6th thing again until the swirl pot and new pump is fitted. I am actually going to mount it all in my spare tyre well in the boot so it is out of the way and tucked up nicely so it shouldn't be an issue again.

So, am off to an LS1 dyno day this Saturday. Wish the lonesome Ford good luck!! :glad:

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  • - Track Bound EVO III -
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  F6 RAPID said:
Nothing to do with a problem on the dyno - was never discussed??

Anyway, had a look in all pots with an endoscope and it seems all okay. Put 6 new plugs in 'er and went to see my buddy who knows much more than me. Bottom line, all is good. Went and gave her a bootful in third and she fries the tyres as good as ever fishtailing down the road nicely.

I just won't be doing the 3rd to 6th thing again until the swirl pot and new pump is fitted. I am actually going to mount it all in my spare tyre well in the boot so it is out of the way and tucked up nicely so it shouldn't be an issue again.

So, am off to an LS1 dyno day this Saturday. Wish the lonesome Ford good luck!! :glad:

Glad it's all nice inside.

Word of warning though.

Even with a new fuel setup, when you load up the higher gears, you will cause the car to make more boost than your peak figure unless it's mapped for it. I doubt Simon has mapped 6th gear 5000rpm's as it's not possible to do on a dyno, or I doubt the poxy wastegate will help at the flow anyway. Your boost will creep up in the higher gears causing it to lean out a bit...

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  F6 UTE said:

Word of warning though.

Even with a new fuel setup, when you load up the higher gears, you will cause the car to make more boost than your peak figure unless it's mapped for it. I doubt Simon has mapped 6th gear 5000rpm's as it's not possible to do on a dyno, or I doubt the poxy wastegate will help at the flow anyway. Your boost will creep up in the higher gears causing it to lean out a bit...

My understanding is the Advantage software doesn't give any facility for altering fuel/boost tables individually for each gear - afraid we are all stuck with 'one map fits all'.... gears that is...

That is one of the reasons you need to run a little rich - oh - and holding a gear at high rpm should be possible to do on a dyno, and would acheive the same result - you just need some very slow ramp rates....

pleased all is well with your motor F6 Rapid - that must have been a significant relief!!!!!!!

cheers, :spoton:

Ben.

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  gogo said:
  F6 UTE said:

Word of warning though.

Even with a new fuel setup, when you load up the higher gears, you will cause the car to make more boost than your peak figure unless it's mapped for it. I doubt Simon has mapped 6th gear 5000rpm's as it's not possible to do on a dyno, or I doubt the poxy wastegate will help at the flow anyway. Your boost will creep up in the higher gears causing it to lean out a bit...

My understanding is the Advantage software doesn't give any facility for altering fuel/boost tables individually for each gear - afraid we are all stuck with 'one map fits all'.... gears that is...

That is one of the reasons you need to run a little rich - oh - and holding a gear at high rpm should be possible to do on a dyno, and would acheive the same result - you just need some very slow ramp rates....

Ben.

I wonder if Goldie has his AVC-R gear/boost setup?? Could be a really good idea.

Might be easier to have a 'top end' map, where boost is a bit lower, and fuels a bit richer.. Might be the safest option!!!

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  gogo said:
My understanding is the Advantage software doesn't give any facility for altering  fuel/boost tables individually for each gear - afraid we are all stuck with 'one map fits all'.... gears that is...

No it does not. The fuel table is RPM Vs Load.. as the load increases you can command more or less fuel to suit your liking..

In a N/A V8, I have seen where first gear only gets 0.8 load, where as in top gear you get 0.9.. You can give more fuel at more load..

  gogo said:
That is one of the reasons you need to run a little rich - oh - and holding a gear at high rpm should be possible to do on a dyno, and would acheive the same result - you just need some very slow ramp rates....

No. that's not the reason.. My opinions of running rich is 2 fold.. Fuel will help cool the pistons etc, and more fuel makes a engine less suspectable to detonation.

Also, High RPM + 6th gear = Overspin the dyno.. Most Dyno Dynamics have 200km/h limitor in them. So high rpm + 6th gear will be way beyond that. tuning in 4th (1to1 gear) is fine.

Danny.

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  • - Track Bound EVO III -
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  Headsex said:

In a N/A V8, I have seen where first gear only gets 0.8 load, where as in top gear you get 0.9.. You can give more fuel at more load..

I was doing some tunes in mine today, I'm reaching 100% calculated load in 3rd by 4,000rpm . 11psi

edit: gogo said it was "one of the reasons" you run it a little rich. Not the reason.

Edited by F6 UTE
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