How To Wreck A Brand New Atomic Motor

[MYWPN]

Well stop trying to be"Doctor Phil" with everything.

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mate enough of the sh*t, this forum is for helping people and for them to give there opinion (not always being right), so can we all; just lay off the case and maybe take some input in instead of slagging people (this is not only aimed at you FPV tranny)

[ktford]

Ah well, at least I hope we have learnt something here from my mistake and I really should have known better - I will own up to it.

I will keep you informed as to what we find. First thing is checking the motor out on Thursday morning with a leak-down test. All good there, endoscope on Friday or Saturday and then check the turbo, all good there, take it easy until we fix the fuelling issues - and attend the LS1 dyno day this Saturday.

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My fingers are crossed for you shorty

[F6 RAPID]

Thanks mate.

[IH8TOADS]

Well stop trying to be"Doctor Phil" with everything.

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mate enough of the sh*t, this forum is for helping people and for them to give there opinion (not always being right), so can we all; just lay off the case and maybe take some input in instead of slagging people (this is not only aimed at you FPV tranny)

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I read over it quickly and didn't think anything of it (dw slagging that is). No need to react over everything, just cos the person isn't talking to your face, shouldn't mean you can pipe up more. Be nice fellas

[ENVY-T]

Going from your sig, I would say you are there NOW, the factory fuel pump has in inbuilt (factroy non adjustable) relief valve, this will release at anywhere from 400-550kpa fuel presure, stock cars wont ever see that presure because of the rising rate (boost controled) fuel reg on the rail, BUT, increase the boost, and the fuel regs relief presure goes up too, the factory pump may let go at any time. you need to lift your foot (no boost and hence lower fuel reg setting ) to alow the fuel pump relief to "reseat" and away you go, if you dont recognise the syptoms of no fuel, a lean condition will happen, and we now all know the results.

I found mine let go after 1.5 gear changes at WOT, it didnt matter if it was 1-2nd or 2-3, when held flat for more than a few seconds, the feul pressure just dropped and the car died/pinged etc, it is MUCH MUCH better with the Walbro, and can do like I said 90% of my driving no worries, but I wont be going to the drags again or going over 230kph without doing a surge (2liter) and big Bosh fuel pump, for a while I was blaming the tune, low fuel level etc, but it is the pump, end of story.

so for a quick question, a long answer, which I hope helps.

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Thank you Eugene. I have had this problem for a while now, and missus always asked me why when overtaking, I would get off the go pedal then jump back on it.

I have GS-342 ready to go in tonight, and hopefully it will fix the issue.

2 weeks ago when the wife was driving to melbourne, we were overtaking and it just stopped dead. She was probably doing 125 but had WOT. It seems to happen most when overtaking, so I am already doing 110-115 and then jump on the gas.

[exahsix]

Can the fuel system geniuses out there (Simon, DW etc) give me an idea about swirl pots?

If for example you fitted a 2 litre swirl pot somewhere up near the injector rail area, still maintaining the factory pump and lines through the car, would it eliminate any problems of fuel starvation at WOT for say a period of 30 secs, 1 minute or whatever - sufficient to do a full power run.

And if not, would it work if you fitted a Walbro and a swirl pot?

[F6 RAPID]

Can the fuel system geniuses out there (Simon, DW etc) give me an idea about swirl pots?

If for example you fitted a 2 litre swirl pot somewhere up near the injector rail area, still maintaining the factory pump and lines through the car, would it eliminate any problems of fuel starvation at WOT for say a period of 30 secs, 1 minute or whatever - sufficient to do a full power run.

And if not, would it work if you fitted a Walbro and a swirl pot?

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Yes mate - that is exactly what I am doing.

The in-tank Walbro will be supplying the fuel to the 2 litre'ish swirl pot and another BIG Bosch pump will be supplying the fuel to the rail/injectors through all bigger fuel lines. Therefore, you should not empty the 2 litres before the in-tank pump can supply fuel again to re-fill it.

[Romulus]

Can the fuel system geniuses out there give me an idea about swirl pots?

If for example you fitted a 2 litre swirl pot somewhere up near the injector rail area, still maintaining the factory pump and lines through the car, would it eliminate any problems of fuel starvation at WOT for say a period of 30 secs, 1 minute or whatever - sufficient to do a full power run.

And if not, would it work if you fitted a Walbro and a swirl pot?

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Call Autotech in Sydney. FSIX on these forums has info about a surge tank setup for these cars.

Your theory will not work as a the 'upgraded' fuel pumps cannot supply enough pressure and volume of fuel, even if they did not run out of fuel supply. The likes of a Bosch 044 Motorsport fuel pump is what is needed. It's not uncommon to run 2 in parallel to supply the injectors in big hp applications.

Edited 26/09/06 08:18 AM by M6 XR6T

[Goldbullet]

Okay, I do believe we have got to the bottom of this.

Firstly, to Dynowog, mate it has nothing to do with the tuning so you can leave that one alone. No need to start throwing    at other tuners/sponsors - simple as that. The thing has been running safe AFR's its whole life with no detonation and no pinging and yes, verified on a dyno, not just a road trip.

This should serve as a very timely warning to all of you with a fair bit of power and who actually use it from time to time. During a run a few weeks ago, I had two other guys in the car with me on a racetrack. I accelerated (flat to floor) in 3rd, then 4th, then 5th and then 6th. Can you imagine firstly the speed (yup, wound it off the 270 clock with overdriven wheels), but more importantly, the sustained force of acceleration and the absolute thirst of a 409rwkw car in these gears at this speed, a simple Walbro pump CANNOT keep the required flow up to the motor - even with nearly 3/4 of a tank of fuel, it is just beyond the flow rate of these pumps. That will explained why it felt like it starting running out of fuel at about 260km/h because it was - leaned out and detonation, hence one rooted plug and hopefully no damage to the motor.

The piece that came off was most likely vaporised instantly given combustion temps at that load.

So, let this be a warning to you all.

Best case scenario for me, this is a new motor and very tough pistons so hopefully no damage. It will be checked with an endoscope and a thorough leak down test in all six pots later in the week.

Worst case - I have destroyed a lot of $$$ (including a turbo) and it needs rebuilding after a mere 1300kms.

I have now a swirl pot kit on order from CAPA complete with Bosch 800HP fuel pump so fuel surge will be no more and I don't have to concern myself with fuel loads or running out of fuel at sustained loads.

So, lay off my tuner - this was a F%CK up by me, the ignorant owner not someone who really nows what they are doing.

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Hey Shane

I know how you feel we had the same problems over 400rwkw but we doubled up on fuel pumps and size all is ok now, feel for you buddy but at our power levels it's all $$$.

Dave.

[SPIKO]

Can the fuel system geniuses out there give me an idea about swirl pots?

If for example you fitted a 2 litre swirl pot somewhere up near the injector rail area, still maintaining the factory pump and lines through the car, would it eliminate any problems of fuel starvation at WOT for say a period of 30 secs, 1 minute or whatever - sufficient to do a full power run.

And if not, would it work if you fitted a Walbro and a swirl pot?

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Call Autotech in Sydney. FSIX on these forums has info about a surge tank setup for these cars.

Your theory will not work as a the 'upgraded' fuel pumps cannot supply enough pressure and volume of fuel, even if they did not run out of fuel supply. The likes of a Bosch 044 Motorsport fuel pump is what is needed. It's not uncommon to run 2 in parallel to supply the injectors in big hp applications.

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Gentleman

Before we get to carried away with fuel setups and numerous variations I will try and make it simple.

No a Walbro is not enough safely for 400+ rwkw's especially when doing top end charges.

Secondly your only other viable option is a swirl pot and larger bosch pump eg. 044

BUT!!!!!!!!!! A 2 litre swirl pot depending on the reg settings and your injector's and actual fuel consuption alone may not be big enough at 2 litres to feed the 044.

Carefull calculations must be taken when installing a fuel system . This is why I run 2 x 044 and 5 litres of swirl pot as well as an upgraded in tank pump that focuses on volume rather than pressure because it now only has to keep the swirl pot full for the 044's.

And then make sure you connect your fuel return line to your swirl pot not your fuel tank, this helps as well.

Do the math!!!! Add 30% of fuel capabilities to your original requirements so that it may be future horspower proof as well.

Do all this yourself or just visit C&V Performance and let them worry about it.

Regards

Spiko