Workplace Bargaining Agreements

[jetute]

Do you reall believe that the "bosses" are sacking the good/valuable people? I have woked on wages, salary and for my self. The most coin I make is working for my self. I look after my good staff but im compleatly ruthless to the timewasters out there. These laws now enable me to piss off the "timewasters" that previously were untouchable. I agree that the new laws have over compensated for the previous crap laws. I have had an employee who was charged with fraud (workcover rip off at my expense) and under previous law I couldn't sack him. I will pay any one that works for me the minium that they will accept to be content in thier job, why should I pay them more? This country will go down the plug if we dont buck up and start producing. I agree with previous comments that everybody should be on production based contracts. If you produce u get paid, if u dont then u starve. This will encourage people to strive to be better. Im sick of people saying  "its all right for you, you earn 6 figures plus" get over yourself for a second, where the fark were you when I was working 80+ hrs/week to stay afloat. Yeah I would stack boxes if I had to, suck it up work is work. We have a bad case of " the world owes me" in austrailia, well guess what I owe u nothin, I will pay my way just like any ABLE body worker should. (sick and elderly is a different matter)

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Couldnt have said it better myself

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absolutely I rip my ars*h*le out to run a business and to provide for my family. I work public holidays, wekends and sundays If required. The people that work for me have public holidays and weekend to themselves. Geez, who gets the raw end of the stick??When they go home they relax. When I go home I start quoting to ensure that I and my workers have a job to go to next week. I process invoices, do paperwork, collections, ensure materials are ready for the following day etc etc.. I dont complain about it, its my choice. Its just that some people think that every single dollar you make comes from someone elses back. And that is not the case in most small businesses.

well said turtle

[jetute]

Very interesting reading about your experiennces with Work Place Agreements as my boss (who is a pretensious turd) just tried this on me:

No moreholiday loading

No more sick pay

No more long service leave

No more RDO's

No unions in the workplace

and in return I get;

All the customer compliants

All the employee whinges

All the responsibility for taxes, accreditation, pricing, wages, stock, rosters, cash flow, research, product planning, advertising, market research, grovelling to customers etc etc

Oh sh.t, I just realised, I am the boss...............I'll quit, that'll show him!

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[Macktheknife]

Well..!!

There is a lot of good and a lot of the opposite written so far. (IMHO)

What must be remembered is this.

It is the human race. Quite simply, only a small percentage can ever be a "Boss", "Owner", "Upper Management", "Professional" (??) or "Public servant" whatever the vocation.

Those that remain will be the tools that are used to maintain the previous in their positions. This will only ever change fractionally due to technology advances.

So, rarely will there ever be an excetionally successful person if not for.......dare I say it...the "Lumpen Proletariat". (Call it whatever you want.)

That being fact, those of us that like to be considered "civilised" and "caring of life" (as opposed to the Idi Amins of this world) (And some self proclaimed religous idealist zealots) must ask ourselves "Do we or should we care for the lesser people that we depend on to remain in our vantage points?"

I'm sure there will be plenty of grey areas in amongst the black and white answers. However. I reiterate. Its the way it always was and generally will be.

Why? Because in our known existance, there is no alternative.

[senna]

4.3% First Year

4.0% Second Year

4.0% Third Year

That's better than the rate of inflation, what do you want?

[tab]

Well..!!

There is a lot of good and a lot of the opposite written so far. (IMHO)

What must be remembered is this.

It is the human race. Quite simply, only a small percentage can ever be a "Boss", "Owner", "Upper Management", "Professional" (??) or "Public servant" whatever the vocation.

Those that remain will be the tools that are used to maintain the previous in their positions. This will only ever change fractionally due to technology advances.

So, rarely will there ever be an excetionally successful person if not for.......dare I say it...the "Lumpen Proletariat". (Call it whatever you want.)

That being fact, those of us that like to be considered "civilised" and "caring of life" (as opposed to the Idi Amins of this world) (And some self proclaimed religous idealist zealots) must ask ourselves "Do we or should we care for the lesser people that we depend on to remain in our vantage points?"

I'm sure there will be plenty of grey areas in amongst the black and white answers. However. I reiterate. Its the way it always was and generally will be.

Why? Because in our known existance, there is no alternative.

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And you wonder why I worship your footsteps Trev

[Dagabond]

4.3% First Year

4.0% Second Year

4.0% Third Year

That's better than the rate of inflation, what do you want?

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You obviously didnt read anything I said....

And if you believe the inflation rate is on the money in the real world, can I come live there...

[BAturb]

there seems to be a pattern emerging here,

those who own a buisness agree that some employees get paid too much and a wage increse is unjustified, if you dont like it find another job,

then the employees agree that a wage increase is justified to help keep up with the cost of living,

then the employers jump on their soapbox and cry it will cost too much a wage rise is unjustified and so on,

for those who own a buisness answer this question honestly as you cant lie to yourself, how would you feel loosing your buisness and having to go in to the work force and work for an employer who says sign this or you will have no job, and by the way work hours will be between 6am and 6pm, there will be no penalty rates and you will work on the weekends with no penalty rates, you will get no leave loading on your holiday pay which is 2 weeks per year, I will pay $60 per week super, there will be no rostered days off, if you are sick or cant make it to work you must give 24 hours notice or be faced with a fine, you may not be a member of any union, and your hourly rate will be $17.50

would you be happy to sign a contract like that?

would you be happy to work for a employer like that?

for those who run a buisness you need good employees, like good employees need a good employer

[jetute]

and by the way work hours will be between 6am and 6pm, there will be no penalty rates and you will work on the weekends with no penalty rates, you will get no leave loading on your holiday pay which is 2 weeks per year, I will pay $60 per week super, there will be no rostered days off, if you are sick or cant make it to work you must give 24 hours notice or be faced with a fine, you may not be a member of any union, and your hourly rate will be $17.50

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who here has been offered this?? you??

If anyone has been offered the above put your hand up now and back it up.

If there is a boss like that they wont be bosses for long. Because they will lose their workers to someone else. See this is the beauty of it... frakwit bosses will go under and the productive workers will go work for someone else

as for the union... faark them

[SHOCK]

Jeezuz whaddid I start ere...

My opinion is if you are worth your chop you will get paid what "you" want. Bad luck if you are unskilled, you should have done the work earlier on in life instead of pissn and drugn through your teens.

I managed to get all of it done....and still have a few braincells left(only a couple Tab)

My 2 cents

Capitalist Johno

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Before you speculate to much Johno have you thought that maybe that 4% might be worth a week of your wages to me......

Not that it is

MIAC8 Toolmaker/CNC programmer/CAD Draftsman with 6years as a shift supervisor I think I'm pretty qualified....

Did the drugn 'n' pissn as well.....braincells are overated anyway....

The 4% I can live with but the 90odd blokes that work under me are all on the border line of better off being on the dole than slugging it out running dirty ass gridley chuckers all day long, some of the guys are on 16 dollars an hour trying to support a family and pay a morgage. The company then offers that upto them when not six months ago they bought out lock stock and barrel over thirty machines from a company closing down in Sydney 4 of which we recieved the rest in storage awaiting the expansion of there factory in China to 5 times it current size.

It's not really about the increase in wages though, I'm more worried about the fact there trying to rip away all the OT penalties from us and after reading this thread many others seem to be in the same boat.

Dag,

I'm guessing your in Sydney in a production shop with asians, indians or vits on $6 an hour who are cycle start bottom pressers. This is so wrong mate but we can not compete with China.

My old toolroom in Adelaide that I did my apprentiship and spent 16 years of my live has been close to shutting down after 35 years in business due to Philmac moving to sh*t quality out of China instead of the local Adelaide toolrooms.

Mate you seriously need to move to Brissy or Perth. Your min Salary should around the $60-$70 mark in a decent machine shop. Might as well forget the toolroom mate, get yourself into a bigarse machine shop for heavy industry or something like valve refurbisment or similar (while keeping the tooling theme). I think you are wasting your experience looking after monkeys. What about engineering estimating...that's where I started when I came off the floor.

Get on seek.com.au.....

[coach3062]

there seems to be a pattern emerging here,

those who own a buisness agree that some employees get paid too much and a wage increse is unjustified, if you dont like it find another job,

then the employees agree that a wage increase is justified to help keep up with the cost of living,

then the employers jump on their soapbox and cry it will cost too much a wage rise is unjustified and so on,

for those who own a buisness answer this question honestly as you cant lie to yourself, how would you feel loosing your buisness and having to go in to the work force and work for an employer who says sign this or you will have no job, and by the way work hours will be between 6am and 6pm, there will be no penalty rates and you will work on the weekends with no penalty rates, you will get no leave loading on your holiday pay which is 2 weeks per year, I will pay $60 per week super, there will be no rostered days off, if you are sick or cant make it to work you must give 24 hours notice or be faced with a fine, you may not be a member of any union, and your hourly rate will be $17.50

would you be happy to sign a contract like that?

would you be happy to work for a employer like that?

for those who run a buisness you need good employees, like good employees need a good employer

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Most of my employees are hard-working and loyal which is why I employed them in the first place, but......... some slip in under the radar and develop an attitude that I owe them a living!

My employees are the frontline of my business and they can make or break you, however in the end it's MY business and MY backside on the line! I reward and respect those who genuinely work with me, not those who just come along for the ride and never extend themselves or do a decent job.

I unreservedly maintain the right to choose who I wish to hire OR fire! that's what I fight for.

I know that some employers have/will abused the new agreements, just like some employees have used a skills shortage to blackmail bosses. This usually comes at a cost to other workers who aren't in a position to negotiate.

Large businesses are not as flexible or adaptive to maintaining good relations with workers so its up to small and medium businesses to lead by example.