Engine Rebuild

[IH8TOADS]

Ahhhh I just had the sh*t scared out of me........I dont know what to say.

[IH8TOADS]

I like mandarins too.

[gogo]

Hi M6 XR6T,

What would be the best cost option to handle power up to 450rwkw?

I'm thinking of doing mine soon, and rather than handing over $8k - $10k for a name brand engine swap, what would it take to build and engine , knowing the power output I'm after.

I have a Nizpro Stage III engine, which is good for about 500 rwkW. I have done nearly 20000km on it and have had no problems with it.

Are you building the engine yourself, cause there is a lot of machining/labour cost involved in putting together a bullet-proof engine. If you have the capability / access to machine shops, you could feasibly save yourself a few $$. The only problem is knowing exactly what to alter, and I'm guessing most shops won't tell you what tolerances, clearances, etc are necessary to achieve a reliable bottom end. Maybe the Nizpro / Atomic / other good quality shop bottom end is a good option, if you get a short motor, and then build on top of that.

For example in my engine bottom end here's a brief on build:

1. Forged pistons and H-beam rods. Allow about $3k.

2. Complete engine balance (rods, pistons, crank, etc). Allow $500.

3. Full circle Bearing set. Allow $250.

4. Bore No 1 cylinder (step sleeve) and CRMO sleeve (required on earlier engines, Ford seemed to have addressed the thin wall problems in later engines).

5. Sonic tested block, hot dipped, surfaced, honed bores, line hone of mains tunnels. Modified main tunnel for oil system. $$ dependant on what's done.

6. New crank linished and mic. Allow $100.

7. New gasket set, welsh plugs, etc. Allow approx. $500.

8. Labour for assembly, checking clearances, etc.

In my case, it was easier to leave it to the experts.

Cheers

Robin.

←

Add oil pump dependant on what rpm you want to rev at - or take pot luck - I know yours was fine Robin... But to be safe above 6500rpm...

Main item for holding the power are the rods, and in the early blocks the No.1 cylinder.

Pistons, and the rest will add increased durability and lower the chance of a problem. If you are buying rods - do not go the LPG units IMHO - I would go something much stronger as there are some really robust, light weight options available for under $2k. Pistons will also allow some modification of compression ratio - which whilst lower compression ration should lower engine efficiency slightly, it should allow for more power...

For me - there are similar spec pistons and rods going in as part of the current rebuild of my engine as are in bcl's beast but without the billet crank and some of the other work.

I figure if you are going to do it - do the bits that you are doing properly. As Robin did - I am letting the experts do it!

Cheers,

Ben.

[xlnt6]

Add oil pump dependant on what rpm you want to rev at - or take pot luck - I know yours was fine Robin... But to be safe above 6500rpm...

Yeap, for high RPM running this is certainly added insurance. If it was around when my engine was put together I probably would have gone with it too. So far no problems.... fingers crossed !!

Pistons, and the rest will add increased durability and lower the chance of a problem. If you are buying rods - do not go the LPG units IMHO - I would go something much stronger as there are some really robust, light weight options available for under $2k. Pistons will also allow some modification of compression ratio - which whilst lower compression ration should lower engine efficiency slightly, it should allow for more power...

Agreed, LPG rods aren't all that much better than stock. Your much better off getting some direct fittment rods (ie. Atomic or PAR Engineering) and use the stock piston. If tuning is done properly (ie no detonation, etc) and your max figure is 380 rwkw or so, you can get away with the stock cast pistons. That's a good way of saving some $$$ if things are really tight. I am pretty sure Craig (Geea) has done something along that line, and he gives it a good "go" down the track and has (as far as I know), had good engine reliability.

Cheers

Robin.

[turbotrana]

I think BA LPG rods may be Typhoon reject rods. I ordered one in ages ago and the bush in the pin was way off centre. Otherwise it was fine. If I ordered 6 LPG rods then I would make sure that they measure up all the same and that the pin ends are all centred.

I measured up both the LPG rod weight and the EA-EF series rod weight and found that although the LPG rod is about 6mm longer it weighs a few grams less than an E series rod.

The E series rod is known for 600rwhp so I would suggest that the LPG/Typhoon rod is slightly weaker only based on a very slight reduction in cross section on the beam. But the big end cap is heavier than the E series cap by 10 grams

If you only want low 500 rwhp I reckon the LPG/Typhoon rod will be fine along with stock pistons.

If you want more then get the atomic rod/piston setup.

[Romulus]

I think BA LPG rods may be Typhoon reject rods. I ordered one in ages ago and the bush in the pin was way off centre. Otherwise it was fine. If I ordered 6 LPG rods then I would make sure that they measure up all the same and that the pin ends are all centred.

I measured up both the LPG rod weight and the EA-EF series rod weight and found that although the LPG rod is about 6mm longer it weighs a few grams less than an E series rod.

The E series rod is known for 600rwhp so I would suggest that the LPG/Typhoon rod is slightly weaker only based on a very slight reduction in cross section on the beam. But the big end cap is heavier than the E series cap by 10 grams

If you only want low 500 rwhp I reckon the LPG/Typhoon rod will be fine along with stock pistons.

If you want more then get the atomic rod/piston setup.

←

Thanks, I've been told the similarities between the E series rods, the LPG rods and the F6 rods. The F6 rods are the good LPG rods.

I'd do what you suggested, buy 6 LPG rods, send the ones that don't measure up back until a good match is found. The stock pistons will do me for what I need.

Detonation and/or poor tuning kills pistons/engines. That's why we see engines throwing rods on stock bottom end XR6T's, rather than crushed rods from cylinder pressures. Knowing my engine has coped ok with it's current output I'll be happy to use the stock pistons and slightly better rods. 450rwkw is an outside figure, I'd say 360-380rwkw is all I'm wanting to achieve. My planned mods will get me there.

It's not about not having the money to build the engine, rather not wasting it on stuff I don't need.

Edited 25/04/06 11:04 AM by M6 XR6T

[F6 UTE]

Ceramic coat the stock pistons. I have yet to see a piston fail due to excess cylinder pressure. ( other than bad tuning or a faulty part ) ...

IMO, unless you want to drop the comp, leave them.

I doubt fitting an Atomic bomb under the bonnet will be of any benefit, but mixing and matching select parts might be an option.

The wog is brining out a cheap plenum, might be worth a look too.... ?

No Foon??

[F6 UTE]

A F6 rod is about 10 times the price of a LPG rod.

←

Let not price be a measure of quality or strength..

An F6 Stamp doesn't mean either..

[Romulus]

Ok, looks like the gas rods are the go.

New bearings, rings, balance, oil system mod then slap it back together. Should be adequate for what I need.

[Ralph Wiggum]

who's tuning it for you? Nizpro..? best tuning house in Australia (as per your signature...)