Dannopower Donating Members 421 Member For: 19y 7m 24d Gender: Male Location: Canberra ACT Posted 24/04/06 06:50 AM Share Posted 24/04/06 06:50 AM Well, I thought since there has been about 4 or 5 of us that have had our auto's sh*t themselves in the last 2 weeks, and since ION supposedly monitor this site, I thought we could collectively get together and tell them what goes wrong with these things, since so many of us are finding them weakest link!This is also a be aware thread for anyone with a 4 speed auto and wants to spend money on making more power than around the 260 mark while leaving the auto standard.The following pics are from an XR6 Turbo, that was stock for 28,000km, then tuned to over 260rwkw with a tranny cooler and thermo fan fitted. The standard box than lasted around another 20,000km in that configuration before this happened.First is a pic of a burnt band, possibly the worst thing about these boxes. Thin, and with bugger all lining on them, they are easily worn out when made to pull more power. Notice the lining is totally removed in large sections of the band, showing that there is really no where near enough on there from the start. Its basically paper thin.Second thing shows the Gearset, with Teeth chipped off. This is a problem relating to the hardness of the metal when its toughened, becoming too hard its actually brittle and snaps off. 3 Teeth were smashed on this gearset.Third shows the damage to the rear gear drive (Im not sure its exact name!), as a result of the chips off the teeth getting all crunched up and moving to the back of the geardrive.So as we know, there are auto builders out there that are working on ideas and solutions to these problems, but there is more involved in making a gearbox than just replacing the bands and clutches with something supposedly stronger. There;s a lot of guys running bigger power (300kw plus!) with the 4 speed, but not many that have had no issues with the box even after upgrading.Just thought I'd post so everyone can get some idea of what actually happens.Feel free to add anything guys! Lets make this constructive and try and work on our own solutions to the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PozzE Member 133 Member For: 19y 1m 28d Posted 24/04/06 07:18 AM Share Posted 24/04/06 07:18 AM Just thought I'd post so everyone can get some idea of what actually happens.←Thanks, Ive read what can happen to overpowered boxes, but haven't seen the damage before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordak Member 1,226 Member For: 20y 7m 21d Posted 24/04/06 07:41 AM Share Posted 24/04/06 07:41 AM Well, I thought since there has been about 4 or 5 of us that have had our auto's sh*t themselves in the last 2 weeks, and since ION supposedly monitor this site, I thought we could collectively get together and tell them what goes wrong with these things, since so many of us are finding them weakest link!This is also a be aware thread for anyone with a 4 speed auto and wants to spend money on making more power than around the 260 mark while leaving the auto standard.The following pics are from an XR6 Turbo, that was stock for 28,000km, then tuned to over 260rwkw with a tranny cooler and thermo fan fitted. The standard box than lasted around another 20,000km in that configuration before this happened.First is a pic of a burnt band, possibly the worst thing about these boxes. Thin, and with bugger all lining on them, they are easily worn out when made to pull more power. Notice the lining is totally removed in large sections of the band, showing that there is really no where near enough on there from the start. Its basically paper thin.Second thing shows the Gearset, with Teeth chipped off. This is a problem relating to the hardness of the metal when its toughened, becoming too hard its actually brittle and snaps off. 3 Teeth were smashed on this gearset.Third shows the damage to the rear gear drive (Im not sure its exact name!), as a result of the chips off the teeth getting all crunched up and moving to the back of the geardrive.So as we know, there are auto builders out there that are working on ideas and solutions to these problems, but there is more involved in making a gearbox than just replacing the bands and clutches with something supposedly stronger. There;s a lot of guys running bigger power (300kw plus!) with the 4 speed, but not many that have had no issues with the box even after upgrading.Just thought I'd post so everyone can get some idea of what actually happens.Feel free to add anything guys! Lets make this constructive and try and work on our own solutions to the problem.←Question, Is there likely to be any tell tell signs of the box being on it's way out when you drop / change the oil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannopower Donating Members 421 Member For: 19y 7m 24d Gender: Male Location: Canberra ACT Posted 24/04/06 07:50 AM Author Share Posted 24/04/06 07:50 AM Question, Is there likely to be any tell tell signs of the box being on it's way out when you drop / change the oil?←Sure is. Kevlar is made up of a certain amount of carbon. When the band lining stars to wear down, significant amounts of carbon are shed into the tranny oil, which catches them in the filter and the pan.Once your lining wears off, the band begins to burn or glaze the drum which causes the oil to burn. This will discolour the oil, giving it a silvery grey look, and together with signs of carbon in the pan, you know she's on her way out. The oil also has a very distinct smell when you drop the pan out.The car may start slipping before you see the burnt oil. You will be driving down the road and realize the RPM will gradually get higher and higher but your speed stays the same. Its about now she's fcuked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saleen Big Gun Donating Members 4,170 Member For: 22y 3m 20d Gender: Male Location: NSW Posted 24/04/06 08:32 AM Share Posted 24/04/06 08:32 AM Thanks Dannopower. Some good info there. When the dude dropped the oil out of my gearbox, there were signs of metal. He said there's a 50/50 chance the drum is ucked-fay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordak Member 1,226 Member For: 20y 7m 21d Posted 24/04/06 09:09 AM Share Posted 24/04/06 09:09 AM Question, Is there likely to be any tell tell signs of the box being on it's way out when you drop / change the oil?←Sure is. Kevlar is made up of a certain amount of carbon. When the band lining stars to wear down, significant amounts of carbon are shed into the tranny oil, which catches them in the filter and the pan.Once your lining wears off, the band begins to burn or glaze the drum which causes the oil to burn. This will discolour the oil, giving it a silvery grey look, and together with signs of carbon in the pan, you know she's on her way out. The oil also has a very distinct smell when you drop the pan out.The car may start slipping before you see the burnt oil. You will be driving down the road and realize the RPM will gradually get higher and higher but your speed stays the same. Its about now she's fcuked!←If that's the case mine should be fine after a recent oil change showed no sign of carbon / metal or discoloured oil Been running 250rwkw for a while now with only a cooler and a shift kit however I don't beat up on it all that much which leads me to another question.......Can it be driving styles, as much as the additional power that are contributing to the premature death of the 4 speeds?If we can get some feedback from those that have had a rebuild(s) re: their driving styles it might start painting a bit of a picture. I.e How frequent do they load up the converter (causing heat build up) and is ti common practice to stick the boot into it when locked in 3rd or 4th @ low revs.Good thread and one that could assist alot of members when deciding what their power limits should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninka Donating Members 1,850 Member For: 22y 1m 7d Gender: Male Location: Perth, WA Posted 24/04/06 12:35 PM Share Posted 24/04/06 12:35 PM Yes, keep the information coming, I'm interested in this topic as well, as I am interested in what can be done to make the SSS stronger as the power goes up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T007 Woooooooosh Donating Members 734 Member For: 19y 6m 23d Location: Sydney Posted 24/04/06 12:36 PM Share Posted 24/04/06 12:36 PM Excellent thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannopower Donating Members 421 Member For: 19y 7m 24d Gender: Male Location: Canberra ACT Posted 24/04/06 01:27 PM Author Share Posted 24/04/06 01:27 PM Can it be driving styles, as much as the additional power that are contributing to the premature death of the 4 speeds?If we can get some feedback from those that have had a rebuild(s) re: their driving styles it might start painting a bit of a picture. I.e How frequent do they load up the converter (causing heat build up) and is ti common practice to stick the boot into it when locked in 3rd or 4th @ low revs.Good thread and one that could assist alot of members when deciding what their power limits should be. ←Thanks guys, hopefully we can get some good info on here and important feedback/ data for auto builders to get some ideas from.I can tell you now, as far as driving styles, I have never dragged my car down the quarter, and quite frankly haven't had too much worry finding someone willing to race at the lights that's even warranted much of a stall up.I drive my car on a winding road about 80km a day to work and back, in standard drive. If im squirting around town I'd leave it in performance mode but allow it to shift itself. If I had to work it out in percentages on where the gearshift is during the entire life of the car, I'd honestly say manually shifting would be 5%, performance auto shifting would be another 15% and standard drive would be the other 80%.Perhaps leaving it in drive has shortened the life of the box, apparently since the faster the shifts the better it is for the gearbox. the longer the gearshift takes the more stress that's put on the gearbox through increased time of friction. I cant see how leaving it in drive would shorten the life, but its a possibility under increased demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish_351 Member 32 Member For: 21y 1m 14d Location: Geelong Posted 26/04/06 03:15 AM Share Posted 26/04/06 03:15 AM Good thread. Will be interested to see where it goes.Mine has started to slightly flare on hard downshifts on the highway. (eg overtaking 4th back to 3rd or 2nd.) It slightly pauses in neutral causing the revs to rise, then engages the lower gear at those higher revs. Its not the fluent down shift it used to be.Its OK though, considering it has 285 Nizpro rwkw to deal with.Getting local tranny shop to have a look tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now