What Should Be Done First?

[OzWest]

hmmm... Might just start with CAI & Filter first, from what I have seen on this site, very simple to. I like the sound of the CAPA Edit/tune but will wait and look into Jan 07 when warranty has ended for that one. Plus I'm in the finshing stages of getting my offroad buggy up and running so my spare dollars after morgage and beer tend to be getting poured into this at moment

[Adam]

  Mildman said:

Nizpro: Edit with bigger injectors, intercooler and CAI approx 395fwkw ??rwkw

HP-F   : Edit with bigger injectiors, exhaust, CAI, valve springs approx 294rwkw (400fwkw)

APS    : Unichip with bigger injectors, exhaust, CAI. 290rwkw (330fwkw)

Interesting the difference between APS and HP-F with the same rwkw and vastly different fwkw....

Lunch time - will edit with some conclusions later

The HPF flywheel figure is to high. Experience tells us it would be more like 370fwkw. Who cares, rwkw's is what we look at anyway.

  Mildman said:

I'm still a little confused why Nizpro go for a bigger intercooler but no upgrade to the exhaust. - unless the factory exhaust does indeed flow that well.

They all upgrade injectors and add the XR8 CAI under the headlight.

Nizpro seem to advertise the most holistic approach, but the intercooler/no exhaust decision doesn't seem right.

Nizpro don't use a XR8 under the headlight CAI. With their stage 2 kit the battery is relocated and a pod filter is put in that place plumbed straight onto the turbo.

Some members have done testing which shows that the stock exhaust had no major restrictions with the stage 2 kit. I think it has something to do with their inlet being so efficient.

[F6_Tornado]

  Mildman said:

As to some conclusions:

I'm still a little confused why Nizpro go for a bigger intercooler but no upgrade to the exhaust. - unless the factory exhaust does indeed flow that well.

They all upgrade injectors and add the XR8 CAI under the headlight.

Nizpro seem to advertise the most holistic approach, but the intercooler/no exhaust decision doesn't seem right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What Nizpro do is quite simple and effective if you consider why.

We remove the cat and fit bigger ones and increase our exhaust size for quite a simple reason and that is to reduce the exhaust back pressure which intern allows the Turbo to spool up quicker and more efficiently.

What you fail to consider is the Turbo has an evil side and that is trying to slow the Turbo. That being Boost pressure!!!

So in fact we have two problems we can address to gain some punch.

Modify the exhaust will help out heaps.

Modify the intake will help heaps

Modify Both and you get the best gains possible.

The intercooler does more than just act as a heat exchanger it is a HUGE restriction to flow and as such the turbo must work hard to force air through it and as such you will experience a pressure differential across the intercooler.

So we may have Boost of lets say 20PSI on the intercooler inlet side and only 10 PSI Boost in the intake manifold with a STD Intercooler. Indicating the Turbo must produce a boost of 20 to be able to use 10 which means the turbo must work hard.

If we disregard the cooling capacity of the Intercooler for a minute and solely consider the internal resistance to flow we can simply see that increasing the coolers intern flow rate will reduce the pressure differential to lets say 12psi to get a usable 10psi at the manifold.

This means we have take 8psi of load off the turbo compressor wheel and as such it will not require the same effort from the exhaust to make the gains you seek.

Simply modifying the exhaust is one way and modifying the intake is another way of getting the same results.

The obvious way is to do both but some don’t simply have the money to do both or don’t have a clue how a turbo works to know what should or could be done to achieve a similar HP.

Nizpro, Id say took the Intake road for possibly a few reasons which we won’t argue about. But it is very very effective and definitely not smoke and mirrors.

[jordak]

  F6_Tornado said:

  Mildman said:

As to some conclusions:

I'm still a little confused why Nizpro go for a bigger intercooler but no upgrade to the exhaust. - unless the factory exhaust does indeed flow that well.

They all upgrade injectors and add the XR8 CAI under the headlight.

Nizpro seem to advertise the most holistic approach, but the intercooler/no exhaust decision doesn't seem right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What Nizpro do is quite simple and effective if you consider why.

We remove the cat and fit bigger ones and increase our exhaust size for quite a simple reason and that is to reduce the exhaust back pressure which intern allows the Turbo to spool up quicker and more efficiently.

What you fail to consider is the Turbo has an evil side and that is trying to slow the Turbo. That being Boost pressure!!!

So in fact we have two problems we can address to gain some punch.

Modify the exhaust will help out heaps.

Modify the intake will help heaps

Modify Both and you get the best gains possible.

The intercooler does more than just act as a heat exchanger it is a HUGE restriction to flow and as such the turbo must work hard to force air through it and as such you will experience a pressure differential across the intercooler.

So we may have Boost of lets say 20PSI on the intercooler inlet side and only 10 PSI Boost in the intake manifold with a STD Intercooler. Indicating the Turbo must produce a boost of 20 to be able to use 10 which means the turbo must work hard.

If we disregard the cooling capacity of the Intercooler for a minute and solely consider the internal resistance to flow we can simply see that increasing the coolers intern flow rate will reduce the pressure differential to lets say 12psi to get a usable 10psi at the manifold.

This means we have take 8psi of load off the turbo compressor wheel and as such it will not require the same effort from the exhaust to make the gains you seek.

Simply modifying the exhaust is one way and modifying the intake is another way of getting the same results.

The obvious way is to do both but some don’t simply have the money to do both or don’t have a clue how a turbo works to know what should or could be done to achieve a similar HP.

Nizpro, Id say took the Intake road for possibly a few reasons which we won’t argue about. But it is very very effective and definitely not smoke and mirrors.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good info

What do you know about the F6 IC re flow rates, are they noticably better than than the XR6T IC?

Not many f6 owners seem to be upgrading their IC's in search of big numbers.

[F6_Tornado]

  jordak said:

Good info

What do you know about the F6 IC re flow rates, are they noticably better than than the XR6T IC?

Not many f6 owners seem to be upgrading their IC's in search of big numbers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We can say that to obtain 18 Psi in an F6 you need to generate some 25psi so depending on what you want to do its still very worthwhile to do it to an F6 as well.

Actually a cheaper option than the exhaust for a start.

[F6 UTE]

We mapped the boost drop before the intercooler ( compressor ) and manifold.

6psi presasure drop accross the intake system at full noise.

Just adding to this.

Some, like me stop mods at a minimal level to keep the look of the F6 standard. No-one looking at my car from under the bonnet or outside would be able to see any mods. I like it this way.

Big chrome intercoolers and 5" tips might look good on some cars, just not mine.. The fact it's a lease/company deal means it's going back to the dealer at change over time..

If I could be bothered, I'd do a pole and see how many F6's are personal purchase Vs Business write offs..

The stock core does a good job considering what it's up against.

Edited 31/03/06 08:49 AM by F6 UTE

[Mildman]

I must admit I had not considered the intake angle but I understand the theory.

You can remove pressure drops from either turbine in the turbo to allow it to boost up quicker and spin faster.

So Nizpro remove restriction from the intake, whilst HP-F and APS remove restriction from the exhaust.

I'm unable to judge which approach is superior.....anyone else got an idea?

I guess the easy way to know you've done the right thing is do both!

[bcl]

  Mildman said:

I must admit I had not considered the intake angle but I understand the theory.

You can remove pressure drops from either turbine in the turbo to allow it to boost up quicker and spin faster.

So Nizpro remove restriction from the intake, whilst HP-F and APS remove restriction from the exhaust.

I'm unable to judge which approach is superior.....anyone else got an idea?

I guess the easy way to know you've done the right thing is do both!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nizpro system plus cat is a good option.

I went through all this at the end of 2003.

Nizpro took the approach that the IC became more of a problem as you go through the 280+ bariier than the exhaust.

APS thought differently, and it's also popular in turbo cars (historically) to do the exhaust, so it was an easier option to sell... plus a bigger exhaust sounds better.

The stock exhaust is not too bad as exhausts go, and the cat should be replaced in precedance over the whole exhaust.

There is still nothing more simplistic and efficient than the Nizpro cobra kit; it simply makes good design sense.

Brian

[Mildman]

  Quote

bcl  Posted Today, 09:18 PM

Nizpro system plus cat is a good option.

I went through all this at the end of 2003.

Nizpro took the approach that the IC became more of a problem as you go through the 280+ bariier than the exhaust.

APS thought differently, and it's also popular in turbo cars (historically) to do the exhaust, so it was an easier option to sell... plus a bigger exhaust sounds better.

The stock exhaust is not too bad as exhausts go, and the cat should be replaced in precedance over the whole exhaust.

There is still nothing more simplistic and efficient than the Nizpro cobra kit; it simply makes good design sense.

Brian

That's a fairly convincing recommendation, definitely worth considering.

I haven't done the price comparisons yet between the 3 companies either.

Nizpro: $8250

HP-F: $4995

APS: (not on their website)

Edited 31/03/06 10:32 AM by Mildman

[Adam]

Another factor you need to keep in mind is that the Nizpro stage 2 kit hardware has the potential to produce quite a bit more power but on a car with stock internals it's limited to the figure quoted earlier in this thread.