Tuner Liability

[F6 UTE]

Some reasons why most would never put a warranty on performance work:

- You don't know how the driver / owner was treating the vehicle (most will say that they were only driving calmly when it "let go")

- You don't know if the driver / owner didn't back off at the first sign of a problem

- Unless it was a full in house build you don't know how well the internals of the engine are put together.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, I agree. BUT.

There still lies a general obligation from the tuner to provide us with something which, to the best of there knowledge and experience, is deemed safe. This can be shown with dyno graphs, stating boost and afr's, and also knock detection or log reports.

I know a dyno does not load an engine like the road does, but a tuner should account for this in there tune.

It's all about accountability. The reasons you mention are all escape routes for joe tuner who just bought some software and goes around boosting engines, or someone who promises a result which far reaches common perception.

I have been guilty of pumping 20 psi into a 4 pot awd car. Dropped a leg out of bed, against every tuners better judgement I had spoke too. Lesson #1.

If I had been to that tuner and he had done it. Different story. He should know better..

I don't pay a tuner to do something against my wishes.

Simon, Wog and Barry will agree that I told them "If you think it's safe, then I'm ok with it, I'm not the expert".

[Xtreme F6]

wasnt going to buy into this but I will, Firstly, if a tuner had a car on the dyno and through his own fault stuffed up af ratios and didnt abort a run or something of the likes and an engine melted a piston whos fault is it? well obvious isnt it. Tuners would have insurance to cover that sort of thing.

If you pull out on the road and put your foot into and your diff breaks because it was never intended to run the power level that is being pushed into it whos fault is that? Are you going to go back to ford because they have given you a warranty? or the tuner because you paid him to make your car more powerful? Or do you just take it on the chin and get it repaired yourself?

Most companies would have there own cars they have done tests on or are doing tests on.

Next issue, whos to say that the customer hasnt done something themselves for there own motives, I know of one person who has been caught out with having a boss engine that was under oil consumtion watch and didnt want to wait till the test was over so he drained his sump and seized the engine to claim a new one saying it had used all the oil and killed it. he didnt notive the marker pen placed on the sump that he didnt line back up and it was obvious what he had done, whos fault?

What if you have had more then one tuner tune your car and its on the dyno with the second or third or fourth tuner you have gone to and it bends a rod, blows a head gasket, or what ever... WHo do you try and get to pay for it? Ford,? Or one of the many tuners? who do you blame?

It comes back to this, have a good relationship with your tuner and take advice from that tuner, if you have problems then its clear whos fault it is, if you take advice from 5000000 ppl and keep changing things whats going to happen?.

Its hard to believe that a car that's had very minor mods can have problems but I spose it can happen when u see some guys reporting broken engines from dead stock cars, I havent seen any personally but it obviously can happen.

Nizpro offer a great warranty scheme that they do and its a great idea, they turn over well into the 10's of cars a week and offer a warranty on there work if you get your car serviced with them for the life of the warranty, its a great idea as they can also monitor oil usage, grades ect, keep an eye on the engines and its wear ect.

Lets take muzza_420 for an example heres a car that had done 70k when they brought it to me for mods, it had been servcied by ford from new and has had a hard life, Its gone from 180 rwkw's to 320 rwkw's and is now about to click over to a 100k (99k) mark, think that proves how reliable these cars can be when serviced correctly ect. The only of this car has said to me he wants to run a low 11 and doesnt car if the car splats itself all over the track trying to do it, Well I do care, I would preffer to see a engine put together and installed that was designed to run low 11's or 10's that was released from the factory as a 14 second car and that has now also done 100000 kms.

There is no black and white in this topic as there is to much grey area to come into play.

[markxr6t]

Also interesting to consider Capa's level of responsibility with their generic tunes. Like you, I believe if you play you pay and can't be stuffed arguing with disinterested Ford dealers anyway. But what if someone said "CAPA's generic tune wrecked my engine"?

[XR6T-riffic]

I thought the question asked if you could be compensated if the engine failed because of a faulty tune?

or did I read it wrong?

[F6 UTE]

I thought the question asked if you could be compensated if the engine failed because of a faulty tune?

or did I read it wrong?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I'm not talking about diffs, or transmissions here.

I also mentioned , " not even at my level of tune "

"Read all my posts dude"

easy to skip, isn't it..

We're even now.

[Xtreme F6]

I thought the question asked if you could be compensated if the engine failed because of a faulty tune?

or did I read it wrong?

Yes, I'm not talking about diffs, or transmissions here.

I also mentioned , " not even at my level of tune "

"Read all my posts dude"

easy to skip, isn't it..

We're even now.

huh? I just added some insites to the topic I didnt go off topic, merely added some other issues that could be faced by tuners. so no.... you still owe me for the other topic

[F6 UTE]

Simon, I'm glad you decided to comment. It is after all the tuners perspective I'm after.

We can argue amongst ourselves here all day, but unlimatley, you guys are providing a service.

I ask you though. If all dyno tunes were done on a dyno, it might be easier. But they are not. Where is the duty of care??

Where is the duty of care regardless?? Why don't you guys offer a warranty outside of the Ford warranty?? You are confident enough when we get the tunes done. Why not back it up??

My wife has 2 kids allergic to bees in her class. If one gets stung in her care, and she doesn't give them the medicine, she's liable for there DEATH.. She's a school teacher, not a nurse!!!!!!!!

Like I mentioned, the multiple tune factor is a curve ball.

I'm also not keen on some customers whom return there cars to stock and get Ford to service them and warrant them being none the wiser. Where is the duty of care of a tuner who endorses such practice, or even charges for the service to take place??

Are we not asking too much for a little peace of mind??

[F6 UTE]

huh? I just added some insites to the topic I didnt go off topic, merely added some other issues that could be faced by tuners. so no.... you still owe me for the other topic   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but selective insight....

What about your customers whom return there cars to stock for service and warranty repairs??

Seriously, does that sit at ease with you, as the tuner??

You obviously have confidence in your tunes and workmanship that it will be 'safe'.

Why not sign your name to it, and not leave it to Ford??

This isn't a personal attack by any means, I know of other 'customers' from other tuners who do the same. So please don't take it that way..

[Xtreme F6]

also while im at it, ill give some information on the engine I bought for my F6 that might shed some insite to this topic.... with being shot down, The engine I got for my F6 from a wreckers that had 10000 kms looked like it had dont 200000 kms.

One of the big ends was even worn down to the copper backing off the bearing. now this is an engine that has done 10000 kms, there are grooves in the bearing metal from grit ect obviously being in the oil passages when it was assembled.

scarey, BUT in saying that I dont believe any low power xr6t's should be doing engines ie just poppen rods out the sides of blocks ect, there must be something dramaticly wrong.

[Xtreme F6]

huh? I just added some insites to the topic I didnt go off topic, merely added some other issues that could be faced by tuners. so no.... you still owe me for the other topic   

Yes, but selective insight....

What about your customers whom return there cars to stock for service and warranty repairs??

Seriously, does that sit at ease with you, as the tuner??

You obviously have confidence in your tunes and workmanship that it will be 'safe'.

Why not sign your name to it, and not leave it to Ford??

This isn't a personal attack by any means, I know of other 'customers' from other tuners who do the same. So please don't take it that way..

Hey, im not one of those guys that say are screw it if it blows up lets put it back to stock and get it covered, To be perfectly honost I dont really have any customers that CAN reflash there cars back to stock for warranty as 98 percent of them have injectors, I have a very good relation with my Ford dealer who are more then happy to work on customers cars with mods that I have fitted and will offer warranty aslong as the cars a booked in through me, I mean a 350 rwkw typhoon tuned by me isnt going to loose its warranty on a door trim ect.

So I do sleep weel at night as I do the right thing by my dealer and notify them of my customers cars that come in for work.

Your trade is a little different unfortuantly and I wish we could be in the same boat, I mean you biuld or employ biulders to do your trade and obviously get to fit and assemble components on bare frames and get to see whats been done, we dont get that privilidge we dont have xray goggles that enable us to look inside an engine to see if it has bearings like the ones I pictured from a dead stock car that's done really no work.

Again I said it before we have isnurance, we have to, if I had a stock xr on the dyno and melted it, I would have to claim a new engine.. not ford. no claims here

Edited 10/02/06 02:20 PM by Xtreme F6