Tuner Liability

[cdm]

It's fair enough if you play you pay however...

A good dealer will honour the waranty of the car on such items that they can see are not related to the modification. I'm not sure if the Ford waranty states that ANY modification voids ALL waranty, however it would be stupid if they wouldn't replace someone's cupholder because they are putting out 20% more power.

I disagree entirely with tuning shops 'testing' things on customers cars without the customer aware of the potential consequences. I.e if a tuner increases someones rev limit without having sufficiently tested or researched this on enough other vehicles to confidently do it without unnecessary risk. If a person is warned of the risks, and agrees, then different story.

I also beleive that should a failure occur as the result of work done by a tuner, then they should at the very least, look after the customer as far as repair is concerned. I.e, not rip them off on the prices of spares or labour. Say an engine does fail due to poor tuning, or the tuner 'experimenting' on customer cars then the tuner should provide parts and labour at cost price, if not, below cost.

[LikeEmFast]

I dont believe the tuner has an obligation to provide a warranty as he did not build the original components. But from a courtesy point of veiw I fee he should at the very least provide you with the possible scenarios that could happen before taking your hard earned.

[Dannopower]

Mate Im a perfect example, I've just broken a band in my auto gearbox.

What am I going to do, revert it back to stock and get another from Ford?

No Way. Its going to get an upgrade at an Auto specialist. And at my expense, so it wont happen again. Why would I put the same problem back in again?

[Cobra]

I had a brand new car modified and tuned .....

while on the dyno it hurt itself .... the water wasn't checked and not having any water in it did not help

spent about $15k with this particular performance shop

an unsigned "disclaimer" was shoved into my hand .... I'm told I signed one these forms .... I responded with a "wtf"

quote tuner

"I take absolutely and categorically no responsability when something goes pear shaped or gets hurt in the shop.... you came to me asking me to help achieve your plans.... you play you pay ... I just try my best to do what I'm asked"

the engine had done 350km and it cost me $9000 to rebuild ... the tuner never paid a penny ... he stopped talking to me

I do my own work now; don't mind paying for my own mistakes.

Do strong and safe tunes ... the last rwkw just ain't worth it

most tuners around do the same stuff and get similar results give or take 10% depending on the weather ....

it is a rip off when all that happens is the zeros & ones are played on the cars ecu with the "unleash the power" attitude ... never mind your car will die at 10k instead of 100k ...

I think they don't really care.

Maybe they hope that you sell the car to someone else and allow the tuner to become one further degree removed from the initial rip off

basic mechanical improvements are manditory for the best results ... and that doesn't include switching air filters or injectors or exhausts ... they are all easy simple bolt-ons that reduce the life of your asset and in combination with fiddling with a few parameters on the cars ecu will expose the owners of near new cars to grief and debt .... ALONE

back next year

[jordak]

There still lies a general obligation from the tuner to provide us with something which, to the best of there knowledge and experience, is deemed safe. This can be shown with dyno graphs, stating boost and afr's, and also knock detection or log reports.

I know a dyno does not load an engine like the road does, but a tuner should account for this in there tune.

It's all about accountability. The reasons you mention are all escape routes for joe tuner who just bought some software and goes around boosting engines, or someone who promises a result which far reaches common perception.

And that's it pretty much in a nutshell

In my industry, the governing act requires that I disclose information associated with the transaction that could influence the customers decision to proceed. The act quite rightfully assumes that not all customers are equiped to ask all the questions that need to be asked to fully understand the complexity of the transaction.

I believe a similar approach would not be unreasonable in the tuning game.

A disclosure statement highlighting all the pros and cons associated with a performance tune incorporating some agreed tuning parametres signed off by both parties would be a good place to start a tuner / customer relationship.

This will not stop accidents from happening but it will certainly help the customer to better understand what he's getting into as well as protecting the tuner from possible grief born of ignorance.

In an industry that thrives on bragging rights it is no wonder that certain tuners will at times push the limits to provide the result the customer / the market expects, therein lies the problem.

One tuning method I'm aware of involves a tuner advancing the timing to a degree where the knock sensor cannot pull out the required level of timing should a knock be detected. This I believe can provide a higher power level albeit at the detriment of removing the "safety net" so to speak. I just wonder how many cars are being tuned in this manner without the customer being made aware.

[iTec]

good thread, and personaly I agree with everybody no matter what side of the story they are on. with basic mods I believe that most tuners and all of the respectable tuners do play it safe. As somebody who currently has a stock car and has every intention of pushing it over 300rwkw within the next year warranty for me is not an issue... Trust is!

I will be going with 2 shops to do the work, one is interstate so they will be doing the initial upgrade and I have another shop in mind that will be performing all the servicing that is local, now ill be maintianing the original installers recomendations but I will not be using them for the maintanace the second shop will be servicing/maintaining the car, now if something goes wrong who do I blame? ford? the installer? the sericer? I play I pay simple as that.

just because somebody has the software and just because they have done a couple of fords does not make them a good tuner, if they have done no other research and development other then a couple of customer cars then in my books they are not worth using...