Tuner Liability

[jordak]

As the owner of Nizpro I have been asking and listing to customers regarding this very question for quite a while. The answer was always very clear. Customers do want some one to take responsibility if they perform modifications to theirs cars. Its clear.

Nizpro make no secret of the fact that we are one of the most expensive workshops for modifications for the XR6 Turbo range. I also believe we are arguably one of the best. The development that we have invested into the our products as a workshop would be second to none. We have had many test engines on our in house engine dyno, in fact there is almost always one on there being tested for some new part we work on ,even right now. We have invested in many XR6T’s of our own for road testing and tuning, we are the only ones that offer emission compliance with our upgrade kits that use the flash edit boxes and lastly we do guarantee our kits.

The reasons why should be obvious. Our customer expect it, which is why we do so much testing in the first place, so we can be confident that our range of products give great service life.

Lets take our Cobra Stage 1  power upgrade. Our guarantee is this. If your T has less than 50,000 K’s on the clock and you choose the above power upgrade kit , Nizpro will take over your  warranty on the engine and turbocharger for the next 20,000 kms against engine/turbo failure, not oil, water leaks and so on, as our upgrades has no effect in this area. .This guarantee is for engine and turbocharger failure. During this period we do require the vehicle to be serviced with us and during this period we check power levels, tuning and perform regular maintenance . This is a no question Guarantee. As stated above the owner will always claim they where rolling down hill with the engine turned off as all the connecting rods flew out of it, and the workshop will always claim the customer down change it from 6th gear back to 1st at 300 kmh .All you end up with is a sh*t fight.

Answer, we offer the no question warranty, you bust it we fix or replace it. Now this dose lead us open for the occasional scam .Fortunately  for us, the type and style of our customers  are some what above this. I suspect mainly because our customers are looking for fantastic customer service, back up and a great results and the extra cost involved with that is secondary. They want to know that they will have a long term relationship with a company that stands behind their products and can offer this service for many years to come, therefore they are not going to deliberately cause a engine failure just for the hell of it.

I hope this answers your question and the way Nizpro go about handling this complex problem

Simon.

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Good approach

[Romulus]

This is not an easy subject, and one I don't see an easy answer for.

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That being the case, why raise it?

[F6 UTE]

This is not an easy subject, and one I don't see an easy answer for.

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That being the case, why raise it?

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Discussion.

Atleast this thread is still open, and no personal attacks have been made.

I like a good debate.

[Romulus]

Ok, I go by the old adage "You play you pay."

It troubles me when people beat up on their car, break it, then think it's ok to revert it back to stock and have FoMoCo fix it.

Sure, if it's a problem that's not attributed to the car being modified it should be covered under warranty, but when an engine lets go because it's been overboosted and pinged badly then that's just bad luck.

[F6_Tornado]

Whoever the tuner was should pay!!!!

Its always the tuners Fault

[Adam]

I suppose I'm heading down the track of people who have minor mods, and are trying to blame Ford, or are getting Ford to foot the bill as far as repairs or 'warranty' work is concerned.

I know of a couple of ppl who has rather extensive mods and still revert there ride to stock before service?? Is this fair or at least even commooin decency??

This is my pet hate.

Just yesterday a thread was started about a blown engine that was only running a cat back exhaust. Another member then provided links to all the threads about his mods. He looked pretty silly after that.

Tuner liability is a tricky subject. I guess a lot of it depends on when the failure occurs in relation to the tune being carried out. If it fails shortly after then the tuner must take some responsibility. If it fails a long time after then the owner probably needs to wear that one.

Warranties like the the one Nizpro offer are a step in the right direction for the consumer, it also shows they have confidence in there work and are prepared to back it up.

[Adam]

This is not an easy subject, and one I don't see an easy answer for.

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That being the case, why raise it?

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Discussion.

Atleast this thread is still open, and no personal attacks have been made.

I like a good debate.

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I totally agree.

Good informative discussion is getting back to what the forum was originally about.

This is the main reason I became a mod, I want to see this forum cleaned up and moved forward.

Sorry F6 UTE for getting a little off topic but it had to be said.

[joetech]

An interesting subject.

Providing warranties for tunes is a difficult subject. First and foremost because the original build quality of the vehicle is not something that the tuner can rightly warranty. Secondly because the customer bears some responsibility for ensuring that the car is treated with respect given that it is a high performance vehicle.

Either way, a good relationship with the tuner is the best way to approach such matters to ensure that if troubles do arrise that they are delt with in the best possible manner. It's also best in this regard to go with a tuner who has an esatblished reputation. Saving a few dollars on a tune isn't always the best course of action with a fifty thousand dollar vehicle.

Having said that, the manufacturer warranty does not cover any form of modification to the car. But, the Xr6T engine has proven to be very reliable when treated with respect and care and as such a very high percentage of consumers can modify their car and enjoy many years of hassle free driving with it.

[F6 UTE]

****Firstly, this doesn't apply, and it's not an attack on edit, it goes for Unichip, ems, motec, whatever management system a tuner decides to use..

I go to McDonalds and buy a coffee.

I wanted the coffee.

I was not forced to buy it, but I chose to

It was designed to remian in the container, and be consumed

I spilt it on myself

I sue because it was too hot.

I'm a millionaire, and everyone else gets cold coffee from now on.

Surely it won't be long untill someone takes someone for a ride. Someone might try to hit Ford up for a repair bill and get no-where, then turn to a tuner, supplier, distributer whatever. I think someone will get burnt.

Do the tuners have adequite protection against a law suit??

Do they have to pass a level of competency before being able to tune a car, and be issued software??

Are there 'conditions' on which software is sold, ie: used for personal use, or can be a licenced tuner?

I have never signed a waiver or declaration before entrusting my car with someone, Whether it be to tell me in which manner I can drive my car, or for which application it can be used, nor have I ever been advised in writing that my car should not be taken to motorsport events, or partake in any manner not suitable for the vehicle.?? But my father-in-law makes me sign one before we go for a fly in his aerochute thingy..

Regardless of whether the factory supplied engine was in a state of good health or not is not an issue. A tuner tunes an engine without checking to see if it is indeed 'suitable' for application of his 'product' I think he might just find himself in a little trouble if he deals with the wrong person.

Workshops reccommend we buy 'x' product of theirs to 'support' the desired power output of there 'kit'. So where does it say tolerances have to be checked to see if the base product is up to scratch?

[F6 UTE]

also    while im at it, ill give some information on the engine I bought for my F6 that might shed some insite to this topic.... with being shot down, The engine I got for my F6 from a wreckers that had 10000 kms  looked like it had dont 200000 kms.

One of the big ends was even worn down to the copper backing off the bearing. now this is an engine that has done 10000 kms, there are grooves in the bearing metal from grit ect obviously being in the oil passages when it was assembled.

scarey, BUT in saying that I dont believe any low power xr6t's should be doing engines ie just poppen rods out the sides of blocks ect, there must be something dramaticly wrong.

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How do you know the engine was not modified prior to it becoming in your posession??

My F6, your F6, F6 Tornados' F6 have all been modded with less than 2k on the clock??????