Dissapointing Custom Tune

[jetute]

good luck sorting out the issue guys!!! and knowing the team at FIST... they will

[mrvph]

Hey All,

Firstly Id like to say thankyou Rob for your patience and diplomacy, and secondly id like to assure you that whatever it takes, we WILL sort out your car. The tune that's is currently in it is a std updated CAPA 8psi map altered for 968 injectors. This is by no means the final tune. The car did not increase in power for any boost levels higher than this, so it was left the way it is for now.

As for the issue of timing, I misunderstood your question. I thought you'd asked wether the "dyno" can read the timing, and I replied that the dyno only shows the power and torque (tractive effort)..........that's my bad!

Further on timing, yes we have the XC2 Livelink but currently having problems with the usb dongle and laptop so no live datalogging for now. Jeff and Alistair are currently sorting out a new AdvantageIII package with a new dongle from CAPA as we speak.

As for the engine pinging, no it is not. The timing map and all temp compensations were left unaltered. I also have electronic ears to listen with, and although they are far from cutting edge knock detection, I did use them and nothing was audible through the ears.

Everything else I can think of all checked out fine, so we will wait till Rob brings the car back in and we will do everything we can to sort it out.

Vonny.

[xrturb]

well my car was doing the same and it ended up being a f*cked cat ..but I know you said they checked it so I will say no more

[Robit28]

Guys, thanks for your feedback. And thanks very much to Jeff and Vonny for your replies also. This is a weird one and I must say after driving the car tonight, it is down on power and just doesn't feel right.

As I have said, I do think that FIST will sought the problems out and I do appreciate what was done today. Vonny worked tirelessly on the car and I'm sure he is more frustrated than I!

I will keep adding to this post as we sought through some of the problems with the car and let you all know what the resolution is. Maybe fit the valve springs and the fuel pump in the next two weeks and see if anything changes.

Also one quick thought. If my gearbox was slipping, would that indicate lower power figures and if so, did you notice any slippage today Vonny?

Talk to you all soon.......going to save some more pennies!

Rob.

[Robit28]

Ok, I have been thinking hard about what the problem is and this is the conclusion I have come up with......3 scenarios!

1) Gearbox - with the gearbox slipping, the power readings on the car could be inaccurate. I don't think this is the case as you would still feel the power by the sound of the engine and I don't think Vonny was hearing this, I think the sound of the engine indicated no extra power was being produced.

2) Valve Springs - now at this power level one would think the springs shouldn't be a problem, but I have heard some horror stories relating to the Ford OEM springs. My car has done over 30,000k's and I might be unlucky enough to have some really bad springs that have just lost their ability to keep the valves shut.

3) Knock Sensor - this is becoming my big No.1 suspect for the problem and I will tell you why I think this way. When we raised boost, the car would either not pick up power or lose power slightly. Now the boost was being handled fine and the dyno chart shows that it reached a peak of 12psi, holding 10 for awhile then gradually fading to around 7, so no leaks or acuator problems here. With the extra boost should come extra power. As Vonny said, he had no way to measure the timing on the day due to issues with their XC2, so it would be hard to check the knock sensor if it was retarding timing. If you look on the dyno sheet, you will see the curve looks like it wants to go all the way to 240-260kw's but takes a dive around the 105kph mark, I am thinking this is the knock sensor telling the ECU to pull the timing back. Then, as the timing comes back and the boost drops off, the engine recovers, the knock sensor regains normal readings and the power tries to increase once again. Then the cycle continues and the power evens out again. We are now in the top end of the rev range where power will naturaly tend to drop off. I have read that some tuners unplug the knock sensor during tuning to get a more accurate tune without the sensor 'playing' with timing, then reconnect it for safety afterwards. If when reconnecting the sensor the car drops 30-40kw, then that would indicate an over 'aggresive' knock sensor, in which case can be bought back with some 'tweaks' within the Edit program. I am seriously wondering whether this is the cause of my problems.

What do you guys think? Does my theory check out, or am I just a nube!

Sorry for the long post, those of you that have read this far.......good work, now tell me whats wrong with this stinkin' car!

Rob.

[Phoon]

Ok, I have been thinking hard about what the problem is and this is the conclusion I have come up with......3 scenarios!

1) Gearbox - with the gearbox slipping, the power readings on the car could be inaccurate. I don't think this is the case as you would still feel the power by the sound of the engine and I don't think Vonny was hearing this, I think the sound of the engine indicated no extra power was being produced.

2) Valve Springs - now at this power level one would think the springs shouldn't be a problem, but I have heard some horror stories relating to the Ford OEM springs. My car has done over 30,000k's and I might be unlucky enough to have some really bad springs that have just lost their ability to keep the valves shut.

3) Knock Sensor - this is becoming my big No.1 suspect for the problem and I will tell you why I think this way. When we raised boost, the car would either not pick up power or lose power slightly. Now the boost was being handled fine and the dyno chart shows that it reached a peak of 12psi, holding 10 for awhile then gradually fading to around 7, so no leaks or acuator problems here. With the extra boost should come extra power. As Vonny said, he had no way to measure the timing on the day due to issues with their XC2, so it would be hard to check the knock sensor if it was retarding timing. If you look on the dyno sheet, you will see the curve looks like it wants to go all the way to 240-260kw's but takes a dive around the 105kph mark, I am thinking this is the knock sensor telling the ECU to pull the timing back. Then, as the timing comes back and the boost drops off, the engine recovers, the knock sensor regains normal readings and the power tries to increase once again. Then the cycle continues and the power evens out again. We are now in the top end of the rev range where power will naturaly tend to drop off. I have read that some tuners unplug the knock sensor during tuning to get a more accurate tune without the sensor 'playing' with timing, then reconnect it for safety afterwards. If when reconnecting the sensor the car drops 30-40kw, then that would indicate an over 'aggresive' knock sensor, in which case can be bought back with some 'tweaks' within the Edit program. I am seriously wondering whether this is the cause of my problems.

What do you guys think? Does my theory check out, or am I just a nube!

Sorry for the long post, those of you that have read this far.......good work, now tell me whats wrong with this stinkin' car!

Rob. 

Robit, had my car done at FIST, had similar sounding problem to yours when first done, Vonny and the boys were there until 10pm at night and went through every possible thing to make sure it wasnt something they did. Ended up being a sensor problem, which Ford fixed. Once this was done, Vonny retuned and I couldnt be happier. By the way, even though the original problem wasnt a fault of FIST, Alistair did not charge me one extra cent for all the hours spent. They will sort it for you mate and although I know what the frustration feels like, once its sorted, Vonny will give you a nice tune that is safe. Dont worry mate, all will be good.

Cheers

Jeff

(Phoon)

Edited 11/02/06 01:43 AM by AdamXR6T

[Robit28]

Thanks Jeff for your encouraging words! It's good to hear that someone has had a simular problem and that all was resolved in the end, it gives me hope.

Did you take the car to Ford to get them to check the sensor? If so, what mods did you have when you took it in? I have the 968 injectors now and I don't want to have to take them out to take the car into Ford.

I don't mind telling them that the edit is in there, but I don't know if they would check the sensors under warranty for me if they know I have an edit???? Will have to see I guess.

How did they find the sensor problem and what sensor was it?

Rob.

[sutty]

Red line before tune green line after trying to get power...

That power curve looks mighty familiar. Good to about 4000rpm, then a drop, then it picks up again.

Rob, you say how can it be springs at this power level, but peak power is of little relevence. Boost is more relevent and IMO 12psi would be enough to show up spring prob's. Another thing is the fact that more boost equated to less power - this was a symptom in my car also.

Now I'm not saying it's definately springs, but if that's what Vonny is saying, then I'd believe him.

With regards to the knock sensor - If that is the problem, then most dealers would replace it - edit or not. FIST also have some Ford connections, so it won't be an issue.

[Robit28]

Thanks sutty! Vonny has actually said that he doesn't think it's the springs. I know what you went through and I think I will just have to install the springs and see what happens. I have a set just sitting here begging to go in so I will probably get FIST to chuck them in at their soonest convenience.

I guess it's just frustrating when you spend $350 on a tune and get nothing out of it. And once again, that's not putting $hit on the tuner.

Rob.

[Phoon]

Thanks Jeff for your encouraging words! It's good to hear that someone has had a simular problem and that all was resolved in the end, it gives me hope.

Did you take the car to Ford to get them to check the sensor? If so, what mods did you have when you took it in? I have the 968 injectors now and I don't want to have to take them out to take the car into Ford.

I don't mind telling them that the edit is in there, but I don't know if they would check the sensors under warranty for me if they know I have an edit???? Will have to see I guess.

How did they find the sensor problem and what sensor was it?

Rob.

Rob, I had the full phase2 APS kit done, once sensor was fixed and re tuned, Im running 306rwkw. Alistair at FIST will be able to put you on to the Ford dealer you need to see, the Ford dealers have the best diagnostics equipment to find these faults. Took them no more than 10 minutes to find after hooking up.

Jeff

(Phoon)

Edited 11/02/06 06:50 AM by Adam