Holdens War With The Xr6t.....

[replicant]

Ecotec V6 190 maxed out? Nope... more likely the drivetrain.

The HF (High Feature) V6 built by Expensive Daewoo comes in a variety of configurations including a smaller capacity (something like 3.1 or 3.2 litre) low-blow turbo (a bit like the XR6T) in a Saab, goes into an Alfa now as well as going in some US GM vehicles. It can go east-west for front wheel drive being a fairly short engine.

The HFV6 will probably go to a higher capacity at some stage maybe 3.8 - maybe for VE but GMH will have to consider emissions and fuel consumption. The 5 Speed in the SV6 doesn't go with the V8 as it won't handle the torque. The 5 speed auto which is made in France is one of the better things in the SV6 as opposed to the very old turbohydramatic auto in everything including the SS.

If the HFV6 goes 'turbo then the T56 manual will be okay but the 5 speed is probably a dead duck. But most SV6's are autos...

The other option is go smaller in capacity and do an asymetrical turbo (ie off one bank) to maintain or increase the current power and/or go direct injection. It's an expensive option but it would mean huge spinoffs in fuel economy... and the HFV is a 'world engine' so development costs could be spread.

GMH make a 6LE80 6 speed box which apparently handles up to 800Nm of torque which is likely to turn up for VE (or maybe VZ Series 3 or whatever) so that could deal with the torque issue.

GMH will probably wait until VE to sort something like a Turbo SV6 and slot the 6 speed auto toward the end of next year.

The SV6 is a good car but compared to the BF XR6, it doesn't have the ride comfort, it's really noisy n harsh and the spec is basically fairly dire Executive. The dash info panel and the options to customise functions is much better than the Ford and the auto is better than the ION94AT. That and the fact that I struggle to tell the difference engine wise against the old pushrod Buick motor in regular motoring...

Compared to the XR6T, it's playing out of its league - that's a job for the SV8 or the SS. What do I think? Well I'm driving a optioned up BF T, thanks for asking...

[oldraven]

  ANGEL#3 said:

I did hear on a grape vine that Expensive Daewoo maybe bring out a sv6 turbo to compete with Ford. Good luck I say

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, because GM has terrible history with turbo v6's.

(turbo Buicks and Turbo Trans Am's)

This could very well be a huge threat.

[Falchoon]

GMH already do a turbo version of the 3.2lt V6 for SAAB so they would just need to tweak a few things to make it fit the larger motor.

[Guest]

Still cant belive the power war hasen't ended like it did in the 70's

vik...still reckon were stantin on shakey ground,live it up while you can boys

[oldraven]

  vik351 said:

Still cant belive the power war hasen't ended like it did in the 70's

vik...still reckon were stantin on shakey ground,live it up while you can boys    

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One of the reasons is we can now achieve these power levels with emissions controls.

[Guest]

But all it takes is one mongol pollie to say ban fast cars...

vik...and it's all over red rover

[Blonk]

  replicant said:

Ecotec V6 190 maxed out?  Nope... more likely the drivetrain.

The HF (High Feature) V6 built by Expensive Daewoo comes in a variety of configurations including a smaller capacity (something like 3.1 or 3.2 litre) low-blow turbo (a bit like the XR6T) in a Saab, goes into an Alfa now as well as going in some US GM vehicles.  It can go east-west for front wheel drive being a fairly short engine.

The HFV6 will probably go to a higher capacity at some stage maybe 3.8 - maybe for VE but GMH will have to consider emissions and fuel consumption.  The 5 Speed in the SV6 doesn't go with the V8 as it won't handle the torque.  The 5 speed auto which is made in France is one of the better things in the SV6 as opposed to the very old turbohydramatic auto in everything including the SS.

If the HFV6 goes 'turbo then the T56 manual will be okay but the 5 speed is probably a dead duck.  But most SV6's are autos...

The other option is go smaller in capacity and do an asymetrical turbo (ie off one bank) to maintain or increase the current power and/or go direct injection.  It's an expensive option but it would mean huge spinoffs in fuel economy... and the HFV is a 'world engine' so development costs could be spread.

GMH make a 6LE80 6 speed box which apparently handles up to 800Nm of torque which is likely to turn up for VE (or maybe VZ Series 3 or whatever) so that could deal with the torque issue.

GMH will probably wait until VE to sort something like a Turbo SV6 and slot the 6 speed auto toward the end of next year.

The SV6 is a good car but compared to the BF XR6, it doesn't have the ride comfort, it's really noisy n harsh and the spec is basically fairly dire Executive.  The dash info panel and the options to customise functions is much better than the Ford and the auto is better than the ION94AT.  That and the fact that I struggle to tell the difference engine wise against the old pushrod Buick motor in regular motoring...

Compared to the XR6T, it's playing out of its league - that's a job for the SV8 or the SS.  What do I think?  Well I'm driving a optioned up BF T, thanks for asking...

Yep.. Just like I said, The ecotec 190 is already maxed out.....

[harvyk]

  replicant said:

The SV6 is a good car but compared to the BF XR6, it doesn't have the ride comfort, it's really noisy n harsh and the spec is basically fairly dire Executive. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can say that again, it almost felt like there was no suspension on the thing I drove, and I'd call it an average grade country road I took the thing for a test drive on... That and it had a nasty habit of wondering across the road for no apparent reason, it was to the point I was concentrating as much on keeping the car on the right side of the road as I was actually driving the car...

[replicant]

Nope not maxed out...

GM could go direct fuel injection, go asymetric turbo (like the Saab), or increase the cubes on the 3.6 litre HFV6. The 190 tune reflects a compromise in tune - mainly because the previous Buick pushrod V6 was very frugal anyway so Expensive Daewoo couldn't release a new high tech engine and have it use more fuel than the old one.

There is little difference between the 175 and 190 engines mechanically - it's like the Mini and the Cooper... they are the same engine just different ECMs.

Saab have a long history with low blow turbos (as do Volvo which is part of Ford's PAG).

If GM does go down the road of using the 6L80 transmission for the auto SS and HSV variants, it allows Expensive Daewoo to ditch the current 5 speed auto and up the engine power (and more importantly torque). The Ecotec 190 has lots of potential and the volume world-wide compared to the Barra to help fund it.

Ford, GM or even Mitsubishi could go Direct Injection and get a quantum improvement in fuel economy (well at the engine speeds most folk cruise at anyway)... Toyota already have DI in the latest Lexus IS250 - which looks a lot like the engine in the Camry so maybe it will go DI in maybe Camry or the Avalon replacement as a USP.

GM and Toyota are likely starters for DI... It will mean quite a lot of dollars for Ford for a DI Barra upgrade (and not many DI Ford engines to date) and Mitsi is a bit cash strapped at the moment.

Ford could easily supercharge the Boss engines (the head gasket apparently is rated for it) and it resembles the GT and F-150 Lightning engine but the issue would be torque again. The current 290kw is about 550Nm of torque and if it went supercharged, then it would exceed the 600Nm design limit for the Rapier ZF 'box - and the T56 is rated at about 580Nm but it has been modified to handle more eg Vette Z06.

The Aston Vanquish S V12 engine runs at 577 Nm which is the most powerful engine in front of the box at present.