Whos For I R Reforms

[stang]

Please read

WorkPlaceAgreements.doc

[XR06T]

I betteer not show my boss that one..

I think she'll be all for it!!!

actually its not that different around here at the moment

[turbomuz]

The toilet paragraph reminds me of a time when our supervisors had the sh*tter doors removed to stop graffiti. A little awkward to say the least.

[mercturbo]

So who is for and who is against these reforms and why? Be extremely interested to hear everyones opinions as there is a quite diverse bunch of good people here, people from both extreme ends of the economic scale. So is cutting real wages Johnny style good for us and Australia?

[G6ET8U]

  Quote

So who is for and who is against these reforms and why? Be extremely interested to hear everyones opinions as there is a quite diverse bunch of good people here, people from both extreme ends of the economic scale. So is cutting real wages Johnny style good for us and Australia?

I am a member of a union (TWU) and I am not against reform... I want reform. Federal Labour even speak of reform. But the reforms that the current Liberal government is ramming through the upper and lower house are too extreme, too heavily weighted in the favour of business. We need to even out the power held between business and it's workers... we all need to work out that without each other we both wouldn't be here...

There must be a happy medium for us all to share. Everyone deserves to have a job, it is the most valuable thing we will ever have with regard to creating opportunity in our life, but in saying that we also need to have fair reward for time given/spent at that job. It is a delicate balancing act, but it is one we must get right... and I don't think the current IR reforms will create that much needed level playing field... A LOT MORE consultation is required, rather than idealists (capitalists vs socialists) from either side making sweeping changes without consultation... unions need to moderate their demands on business and on the other hand business needs to moderate it's demands on it's workers time. As a really smart person once said all things are good in moderation...

Remember John Howard says that he has a mandate to make these massive changes to our very lives because we voted the Liberal party in to office... but what he and the Liberal party have to remember is that 49% percent of Australians did not vote for him... govern for all fairly. Australians by nature aren't extremists, we have never had to be, so we don't appreciate when we see a person in a postion of power attempt to create and write in to legislature extreme views... these changes he wants would never have been able to happen if the Libereal government hadn't gotten control of the Senate... These changes illustrate the worth of a fairly proportioned and properly functioning Senate or Upper House of government. And the need for the balance of power to held by a group other than the ruling government of the day. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I'm also interested to see what others think on this topic as well...

The area of our lives where we need overhaul is taxation... surely when a government has budgeted for a 13 billion dollar (that is 13 thousand million dollars!?!?!?!?) surplus they are collecting too much money?!? Give it back to us as tax cuts or give it back to us as services... I don't mind paying tax when I can see it being used constructively, but when I see it just being collected for the sake of it then this annoys me... and many others I would suggest... anyway that's off topic.

Jack

[tab]

  XR6T8_U said:

  Quote

So who is for and who is against these reforms and why? Be extremely interested to hear everyones opinions as there is a quite diverse bunch of good people here, people from both extreme ends of the economic scale. So is cutting real wages Johnny style good for us and Australia?

I am a member of a union (TWU) and I am not against reform... I want reform. Federal Labour even speak of reform. But the reforms that the current Liberal government is ramming through the upper and lower house are too extreme, too heavily weighted in the favour of business. We need to even out the power held between business and it's workers... we all need to work out that without each other we both wouldn't be here...

There must be a happy medium for us all to share. Everyone deserves to have a job, it is the most valuable thing we will ever have with regard to creating opportunity in our life, but in saying that we also need to have fair reward for time given/spent at that job. It is a delicate balancing act, but it is one we must get right... and I don't think the current IR reforms will create that much needed level playing field... A LOT MORE consultation is required, rather than idealists (capitalists vs socialists) from either side making sweeping changes without consultation... unions need to moderate their demands on business and on the other hand business needs to moderate it's demands on it's workers time. As a really smart person once said all things are good in moderation...

Remember John Howard says that he has a mandate to make these massive changes to our very lives because we voted the Liberal party in to office... but what he and the Liberal party have to remember is that 49% percent of Australians did not vote for him... govern for all fairly. Australians by nature aren't extremists, we have never had to be, so we don't appreciate when we see a person in a postion of power attempt to create and write in to legislature extreme views... these changes he wants would never have been able to happen if the Libereal government hadn't gotten control of the Senate... These changes illustrate the worth of a fairly proportioned and properly functioning Senate or Upper House of government. And the need for the balance of power to held by a group other than the ruling government of the day. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I'm also interested to see what others think on this topic as well...

The area of our lives where we need overhaul is taxation... surely when a government has budgeted for a 13 billion dollar (that is 13 thousand million dollars!?!?!?!?) surplus they are collecting too much money?!? Give it back to us as tax cuts or give it back to us as services... I don't mind paying tax when I can see it being used constructively, but when I see it just being collected for the sake of it then this annoys me... and many others I would suggest... anyway that's off topic.

Jack

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I’m not being a smart ass and I respect your opinion, but why do you consider these reforms too extreme? All I have seen so far is propaganda from unions as they are concerned they may be squeezed out of the picture. Can anyone give me some facts that backup all of the hype? Please?

The fact of the matter is that the employer is not always out to f*ck over the employee. Sure there are a few bad eggs but most employees are getting a lot smarter and more aware of their rights every day. On the other end of the spectrum the typical employer is continually finding ways to keep their staff (if they are worthy of course) so will not do anything detrimental that will ultimately affect their business.

For a wage employee to move onto contract based employment THEY HAVE TO AGREE TO IT. So unless the employee is in the worst case scenario with “the boss from hell” and they themselves are a few sandwiches short of the picnic, then there is no way they can end up worse off. And then (like with any contract) if it is found to be unlawful or was entered into under duress it will then become null and void; and the employee is entitled to return to the previous employment instrument I.e. back on a 38 hour week wage.

But yeah, very interested to hear other’s thoughts

Edited 16/12/05 09:03 AM by tab

[G6ET8U]

As I stated above... I am not against reform in IR. But I am interested in why the government is ramming the changes through the Senate with their majority whilst stifiling any genuine debate on the subject. So then what you left is an extrememly well presented campaign presented on behalf of the union and government being made to look like it is making it up as it goes... I remember listening to interviews by the government workplace relations minister and under questioning he couldn't even adequately explain the reasoning behind the need for such drastic changes to IR only being able to harp on the point of unfair dismissal... and around the same time that this was launched by the government on talkback radio (3AW in Melbourne) you had plenty of small business people ringing in and basically they are only after one major change to IR and that is to the unfair dismissal laws, and I agree with them. Unfair dismissal laws are weighted far too heavily in the favour of the worker and they need to be amended but there is no reason to throw out the baby with the bath water...

Are you happy to give away your public holidays?

I know I sure aren't...

I'm a typical Australian when it comes to anyone in authority and by that I mean I am wary of them... I don't appreciate being patted on the head and told not to worry... and that is what it feels like the government is doing.

Jack

[ktford]

I'm all for sacking lazy f*cks that sit about and take smoke breaks all day while I'm busting my hump, end of rant

[tab]

  XR6T8_U said:

Are you happy to give away your public holidays?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally it doesn’t really affect me; public holidays and weekends are just another day in the hospitality industry. But in any case where is it legislated that “no Australian will ever be given a public holiday”? Or is this just more union propaganda?

As for the government ramming legislation through while they have balance of power – wouldn’t any government with a majority do that? The opposition is up in arms over it but they themselves were in the same position a few years back. Simply a case of making hay while the sun shines.

Now where has that bloody Lumpen Unionlover gone? Surprised he’s not in here dribbling by now

[tab]

  ktford said:

I'm all for sacking lazy f*cks that sit about and take smoke breaks all day while I'm busting my hump, end of rant

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What if one stands on his ciggie break? As I sit on lazy ass when I’m working – is that OK?