Auto Vs Manual

[Guest thatgroutguy]

Hi to all,

I currently have a datto 1600 with 240rwhp (with nitrous 75hp fogger), while that power figure may seem small on these pages I can assure you will only 1000kg to push its fun!! Unless I brake it ive never gotten out of it with out a smile on my face. But as you would all know and apprecaite there comes a time of out with the old in with the new.

So here is my topic, I know it has probably been discussed before and if I knew where to find it I would look. Im sold on the xr6t ive wanted on for years now but the time just hasn't been right to get one. I love driving cars hard and I can't help but feel that a self shifter would rob me of some of my fun. As the car will be her daily driver through stop start brissy traffic she wants an auto.

I have a couple of questions. My target is 300rwkw, and would only be used a few times at the track and was wondering how strong the gearboxes\ trany are will they both take this pwr in standard form? The second question is with the auto rob me of my fun factor there is nothing I love better than a nice controlled drift and some spirted driving.

Any info shedding some light would be great. Sorry about the long post but im a first timer and just wanted to give you all some back ground.

Jas aka That Grout Guy. (My business Name)

[TurboDewd]

ZF 6-spd tiptronic auto. Top notch strong euro box.

Need I say more??

[Guest]

  TurboDewd said:

ZF 6-spd tiptronic auto.  Top notch strong euro box.

Need I say more??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What the Dewd said...

But take one for a spin,if the new auto box is what they say,wouldnt think of a cog swapper for a second,And SWMBO will love you,flick the stick and your manuel and can play

vik...6 speed down the 1/4

[F6 UTE]

6 spd is 'only' rated to 600Nm ( @ Engine) . One could safely assume 300rwkw will see the box crumple, just like the older 4 spd boxes.

A manual will see the clutch die, unless it's an F6 unit, then you can have 300rwkw and not touch anything driveline related.. ( In a manual )

There are exceptions, and guys are running large power with stock driveline, but for how long??

The new auto is smart, and holds gears etc. Sounds like a good unit.

[SavageF6]

TGG, the auto box as said is pretty smart, and by all accounts, can be made to act like a manual. Also, being in Turbo, you'll be able to stay on boost as long as your foot's to the floor, and it'll shift quicker than you or I could. Better drag times, get your nose in front at the traffic light GPs etc.

Having said that, F6 Ute makes some good points re: mods & limits etc. And then there are the 'fun factor' points you raised in your post.

I ordered my BF F6 with manual for that exact reason. I simply enjoy playing with manuals more. Heel and toe baby. Then again, I didn't have to factor anyone else into my buying equation.

[Shockwave-T]

Personally I prefer shifting gears myself (ie manual).. after having an auto car for the past 3 years before my T, I can honestly say that I was bored sh*tless with the self-shifter. I don't mind sitting in heavy traffic with the manual either, but then again everyone is different and likes different things.

What have you had done to your 1600? Can you post pics? My bro and I have had an unfinished 1600 sitting in our garage for the past 5 years!!

[Guest]

F6 it that a fact???6 spd is 'only' rated to 600Nm ( @ Engine) . One could safely assume 300rwkw will see the box crumple, just like the older 4 spd boxes.

Bugger I thought it would handle more than that,what about all the fancy cars that use that box

vik...bloody hell

[F6 UTE]

  vik351 said:

F6 it that a fact???6 spd is 'only' rated to 600Nm ( @ Engine) . One could safely assume 300rwkw will see the box crumple, just like the older 4 spd boxes.

Bugger I thought it would handle more than that,what about all the fancy cars that use that box

vik...bloody hell    

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Quote

DETROIT, April 21, 2004; Reuters reported that Jaguar, a unit of Ford Motor Co., on Wednesday said it was recalling 67,798 cars because of a defect that can inadvertently slip them into reverse gear.

Models covered by the global recall, which affects nearly 33,500 vehicles in North America and others mostly in Europe and Japan, are the 2003 S-Type and XK and the 2004 XJ, Jaguar's flagship sedan, a company spokesman said.

All are equipped with six-speed ZF automatic transmissions and the spokesman said the problem involved an electronic module that controls the gearbox.

"In a rare event of major loss of oil pressure in the transmission, it can result in the transmission selecting reverse gear," he said.

He said there had been no reports of accidents or injuries stemming from any incidents in which the cars have suddenly slammed into reverse.

Jaguar is part of Ford's Premier Automotive Group, its stable of European-based luxury brands. The global recall is the second affecting customers of the upscale British nameplate in as many months."

Jag makes 430Nm from it's 6 spd auto equipped Jag.

2005 Aston Martin DB9 makes 570 Nm - same box

Yes, it's used in 'Fancy' cars. But these cars are generally smaller displacement, or as in the DB9, not torque monsters..

[Turbofalke]

  thatgroutguy said:

Hi to all,

The second question is with the auto rob me of my fun factor there is nothing I love better than a nice controlled drift and some spirted driving.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I run an auto and find myself driving in "manual mode" 90% of the time. I got the auto cause of my wife, as she's not so good with the manual (can't do it in fact!!)

In hindsight I should have got the manual and just put up with the TAXI fare.

having said that, I have found the auto quicker than the manual having driven both.

[gogo]

Firstly - welcome to the Forum!

The version of the ZF 6 speed auto that is being fitted in the Falcons is rated at 600Nm. I understand there are heavier duty versions of the same box rated at more (800Nm I believe a read somewhere - not sure how accurate this is... )

At 300rwkw at say 5250rpm you would 'only' need in the order of 670Nm at the crank so not a 'massive overload on the rated capacity of the new auto box, but most guys run a stronger mid range than 670Nm at this peak power level. It is the mid range torque and not the peak power which will place at risk the gearbox.

As to the capacity of the new autos - as these are new, I doubt any here can say definitely one way or the other as to what they will actually take, how expensive they will be to modify (if possible) to take more etc. With a very conservative torque curve you MIGHT be okay and still acheive the desired power.

The other unknown is the ability to use the EDIT to modify functionality on the new 6-speeds. One of the tuners might like to add something, but as far as I am aware this functionality has not been developed yet. I would presume that it will be, but that is a presumption so no guarantee...

The manuals we do know about, and the point made earlier on the clutch for the BF XR6T is absolutely valid. Other than that the drive train should prove mostly reliable as it has for many here.

The only other thing that you might like to consider is a few of the 4 speed autos have been written off when sinking the boot and the auto drops from 4th to second and sends a massive wack of torque to the wheels. I understand there have been 3 cases of this... These cars will always need to be driven with care at these power levels regardless so perhaps not a major consideration.

For me - I went the self shifter and love it - it commutes through heavy Melbourne traffic often and I have no issue - but then I have a chuncky left leg that hardly notices the clutch.

The autos have always been a good choice in these cars due to the spread and availability of torque, and keeping the car on boost. The final that choice will always be yours!

Good luck!

Ben.