W.a Gets Wogged.

[F6 UTE]

If it has been tuned around a fault code and the engine pulls out 'X' amount of timing because it can't get said signal, Will this mean it still reacts to the 'other' or 'only' knock sensor when it detects knock on that one??

[Street Tuner]

I am not totally sure of that answer F6...I will have to dig through the code to work that one out. My understanding though is that the PCM groups the knock control system as a whole, and will shutdown the lot if it sees a partial fault. The system may not log an error code that can be scanned either, as since the provision for a second sensor was never there in the first place, the error report hasnt been written for it.

[Dannopower]

I am not totally sure of that answer F6...I will have to dig through the code to work that one out. My understanding though is that the PCM groups the knock control system as a whole, and will shutdown the lot if it sees a partial fault. The system may not log an error code that can be scanned either, as since the provision for a second sensor was never there in the first place, the error report hasnt been written for it.

so how the hell can the tuning software tell the ecu it has something that it never had???

If this was the case, couldnt the current BA xr6 turbo ecu be told that the dual cam timing is independent, like the typhoon?

Or that it has a BF 6 speed in it??

[Dannopower]

and while Im shooting, Correct me if im wrong, But NO Tuner can upload another tuners tune from a CAPA box and view it, or make adjustments to it, Can they?

If one tuner wants to know what someone else is doing, they have to pretty much look at the way the car reacts on the dyno, road test and make a calculated guess?

am I right?

Edited 10/11/05 08:39 AM by Dannopower

[Ford_Power]

I am not totally sure of that answer F6...I will have to dig through the code to work that one out. My understanding though is that the PCM groups the knock control system as a whole, and will shutdown the lot if it sees a partial fault. The system may not log an error code that can be scanned either, as since the provision for a second sensor was never there in the first place, the error report hasnt been written for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so how the hell can the tuning software tell the ecu it has something that it never had???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The ECU (PCM) is not TOLD anything. The PCM simply "has" what is programmed into it! If you instruct the PCM that there are 2 knock sensors, then it will "know" it has two knock sensors. Being able to select "2" is obviously is a possibility with some cars, so the software will allows the tuner to enter this number.

Obviously when the PCM attempts to poll for the two knock sensors presence, it will fail as it will only detect one knock sensor. As Martin said, obviously this is trigger a fault, and the PCM will revert to its "limp-home" setting so to speak for that system and assume that there is a fault with knock control system and remove 6 degrees of timing.

If this was the case, couldnt the current BA xr6 turbo ecu be told that the dual cam timing is independent, like the typhoon?

Or that it has a BF 6 speed in it??

Its not quite that simple, there may not be provision in the tuning software for "BF 6 speed auto" to simply just "flick a switch" and select it. And just for arguments sake, assume there was a way of doing this.... Do you think for one second that the engine/transmission will behave as it should?? I doubt it! You would get some majorly erratic/unpredictable operation!

As for the cam timing, I'm SURE that you could indeed try to enable it on a non VCT enabled XR6T, but you can bet that it wont do anything. The tables that it would need to refer to simply wont be there, or if they were , they would simply have "0"'s programmed into that section (or table) of code that it needs to refer to.

Ross

Edited 10/11/05 08:56 AM by Ford_Power

[Street Tuner]

That is correct Danno. Protects the tuners from having their work plagiarised. Our scanner though can very quickly show commanded boost, fuel, and timing settings, along with stuff like whether the knock sensors are working etc.

As for the knock sensor count? The software will let you go to a maximum of '2' in that field, and if you change it from stock to this number, makes the obviously stupid assumption that you might be a professional engine tuner that knows what he/she is doing, and therefore tries to enable the system. Its a simple command....and one we cant 'protect' against.

Edited 10/11/05 09:07 AM by Street Tuner

[F6 UTE]

If one tuner wants to know what someone else is doing, they have to pretty much look at the way the car reacts on the dyno, road test and make a calculated guess?

am I right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nah Danno, you just plug your logger in and see what's happening after a few runs - on the dynop even, then switch tunes and log the next one....

After that, you just import a bit of data to excel and voiala, a few graphs showing resulted fuel/timing etc..

I have no idea as to what being demanded, but I do know what's actually happening. Obvoius it's not as detailed as the SCT software, but it doesn't cost as much either.

[Guest]

If it has been tuned around a fault code and the engine pulls out 'X' amount of timing because it can't get said signal, Will this mean it still reacts to the 'other' or 'only' knock sensor when it detects knock on that one??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

getting greg to do a fisical check in the morning and acording to the wiring diagram a friend has it shows a dotted line for a second knock sensor with no description but to the same pin on the pcm!

the cars x proto type cars which I had done definately had 2 knock sensors and they were proto type f6 engines this as I said may have been droped for production?

will find out soon!

[Guest]

just had a thaught as the tables remained the same (1 sensor) and as the sensor is a microphone its listening in effect for a volume (analog voltage) it wont matter if there is only one sensor only if there were 2!

as to codes I doubt it it would log one as I doubt it would reduce timing due to only one sensor activated but this remains to be seen!!!

ben can you send me a log or read out some info to me for me to compare ith your tune?

[Xtreme F6]

BA model has one, There is 2 locations on the block for 2 but in the BA they used one, they would sometimes have the dealers change them from one posistion to the other to try and help stop pinging in cars, just to doible check what has been said I checked my F6, it has one.