W.a Gets Wogged.

[Guest]

But... I believe that if you think DynoWog has made a mistake - ring him, or email him and help one of your best dealers to do it right - rather than slagging them off like you are.  I dont like to see business done like this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is good. Tuner shows the bloke how he has done it wrong, after the bloke publicly came out with stuff that not one part of was right, and its known as 'bagging'. Should be called education with no ping

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this makes less sence than one of my posts???

[Street Tuner]

Hi Martin, (and please only Martin answer this one - thanks guys). Given that you said above one should never audibly hear an engine 'ping', what does it mean if one CAN indeed hear it pinging? Does this mean the knock control is inactive? or possibly something else?

Thank you,

Ross

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Look at it this way Ross, if your ears have heard the engine pinging, then the knock sensors heard it long, long before you did. In fact the most damaging type of detonation is the light and inaudible version, because the driver doesn't understand to lift off...they cant hear anything wrong. Thankfully the knock sensor knows all about this 'Delta 1' knock (as some describe it) and takes according remedial action.

If you hear detonation in an XR6T engine it can mean a few different things. The first of course is that the knock sensor itself has simply been switched off. This we have convered, and there is really no sane reason for it in a road car. However the engine can still ping if physical conditions are met that the activity of the knock sensor cannot correct. Take my 'hypothetical' example......

A dead standard 'T' running 19psi of boost at 3500rpm, with 22 degrees ignition timing in the map, and a commanded AFR of 14.X:1. Even with the stock 12 degrees of timing the knock sensor can (and will) pull out of the map, the boost is so far 'off the scale', and the mixture so lean, that almost no amount of timing retard will protect the engine from destructive high speed detonation

If you can hear detonation at all, then its a fair bet you have bags of low level inaudible pinging as well. My best advice is to seek a professional tuner - and I dont know or care who tuned your car - who understands the very basic fundamentals and physics involved in tuning a modern four stroke engine. Its not magic and guesswork...its science

Edited 09/11/05 08:09 AM by Street Tuner

[Mr X]

Hi Martin, (and please only Martin answer this one - thanks guys). Given that you said above one should never audibly hear an engine 'ping', what does it mean if one CAN indeed hear it pinging? Does this mean the knock control is inactive? or possibly something else?

Thank you,

Ross

Look at it this way Ross, if your ears have heard the engine pinging, then the knock sensors heard it long, long before you did. In fact the most damaging type of detonation is the light and inaudible version, because the driver doesn't understand to lift off...they cant hear anything wrong. Thankfully the knock sensor knows all about this 'Delta 1' knock (as some describe it) and takes according remedial action.

If you hear detonation in an XR6T engine it can mean a few different things. The first of course is that the knock sensor itself has simply been switched off. This we have convered, and there is really no sane reason for it in a road car. However the engine can still ping if physical conditions are met that the activity of the knock sensor cannot correct. Take my 'hypothetical' example......

A dead standard 'T' running 19psi of boost at 3500rpm, with 22 degrees ignition timing in the map, and a commanded AFR of 14.X:1. Even with the stock 12 degrees of timing the knock sensor can (and will) pull out of the map, the boost is so far 'off the scale', and the mixture so lean, that almost no amount of timing retard will protect the engine from destructive high speed detonation

If you can hear detonation at all, then its a fair bet you have bags of low level inaudible pinging as well. My best advice is to seek a professional tuner - and I dont know or care who tuned your car - who understands the very basic fundamentals and physics involved in tuning a modern four stroke engine. Its not magic and guesswork...its science

Sounds like a tune an SA guy got from a visiting tuner

[RAPHOON]

Hi Martin, (and please only Martin answer this one - thanks guys). Given that you said above one should never audibly hear an engine 'ping', what does it mean if one CAN indeed hear it pinging? Does this mean the knock control is inactive? or possibly something else?

Thank you,

Ross

Look at it this way Ross, if your ears have heard the engine pinging, then the knock sensors heard it long, long before you did. In fact the most damaging type of detonation is the light and inaudible version, because the driver doesn't understand to lift off...they cant hear anything wrong. Thankfully the knock sensor knows all about this 'Delta 1' knock (as some describe it) and takes according remedial action.

If you hear detonation in an XR6T engine it can mean a few different things. The first of course is that the knock sensor itself has simply been switched off. This we have convered, and there is really no sane reason for it in a road car. However the engine can still ping if physical conditions are met that the activity of the knock sensor cannot correct. Take my 'hypothetical' example......

A dead standard 'T' running 19psi of boost at 3500rpm, with 22 degrees ignition timing in the map, and a commanded AFR of 14.X:1. Even with the stock 12 degrees of timing the knock sensor can (and will) pull out of the map, the boost is so far 'off the scale', and the mixture so lean, that almost no amount of timing retard will protect the engine from destructive high speed detonation

If you can hear detonation at all, then its a fair bet you have bags of low level inaudible pinging as well. My best advice is to seek a professional tuner - and I dont know or care who tuned your car - who understands the very basic fundamentals and physics involved in tuning a modern four stroke engine. Its not magic and guesswork...its science

Sounds like a tune an SA guy got from a visiting tuner

R U sure it wasn't a tune slipper by the fixer??

<or just a figment of your imagination??

[Xtreme F6]

Actually I havent got anything to hide on this, rosses car is a car I did months ago than last week he popped over for me to do the traction control fix that I did and now it has started to ping when loaded up in fourth from 2000 to 3000 rpm, I have asked him to pop over when he has a minute for me to look at it, as before the recent reflash for the TC issue it has been fine, it made just over 270 rwkw's with a dead stock manual T. I look forward to logging it now to see why it would have changed with the tc changes.

[jetute]

Actually I havent got anything to hide on this, rosses car is a car I did months ago than last week he popped over for me to do the traction control fix that I did and now it has started to ping when loaded up in fourth from 2000 to 3000 rpm, I have asked him to pop over when he has a minute for me to look at it, as before the recent reflash for the TC issue it has been fine, it made just over 270 rwkw's with a dead stock manual T. I look forward to logging it now to see why it would have changed with the tc changes.

they didnt mean you

[DBOSS]

Talking about DW I think

[Xtreme F6]

Actually I havent got anything to hide on this, rosses car is a car I did months ago than last week he popped over for me to do the traction control fix that I did and now it has started to ping when loaded up in fourth from 2000 to 3000 rpm, I have asked him to pop over when he has a minute for me to look at it, as before the recent reflash for the TC issue it has been fine, it made just over 270 rwkw's with a dead stock manual T. I look forward to logging it now to see why it would have changed with the tc changes.

they didnt mean you

I realise mate but im not going to let anyone get flack for a car I did. And like I said the car has been perfect apart from the TC issue, that was rectified and has since develpoed a slight ping, so I need to retouch it.

[jetute]

yeah but it wasnt even that car that they are referring to.

[Xtreme F6]

yeah but it wasnt even that car that they are referring to.

Ross asked Martin a question regarding the knock sensor, ross being my customer. The car that martins reffering to I have no idea but I wanted to just give an explination regarding rosses car