W.a Gets Wogged.

[Guest]

Seriously, what a            f u c k...

Enrico, IF he tuned a car to a spec, then you changed something hardware related, is it his fault it's now F C U K E D???

Get a grip.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it had a miss near the end of the tunning and it was to late to get plugs etc on a sat arvo!

but strange it pings! with just that!!!

its cool enrico!!! please leave him be guys fault unknown it should not ping!

call me please ha!!!!

[jordak]

Might be time to put this whole wog tune "ping" thing into perspective.

Having just experienced first hand how a fly-in / fly out tuning trip unfolds there is alot more than simply the expertise and capability of the tuner to take into account when assessing the results.

Prior to Nick coming West my experinece with edit custom tuning was that I left my car with a tuner for an entire day in order to get a meaningful safe increase in performance. This was then followed up with additional visits for fine tuning in order to remove slight pinging that crept in under certain conditions I.e cold mornings, under load up a hill with four passengers, crappy fuel etc. etc..

From what a number of tuners have told me, at present the SCT software still has a way to go to provide the tuner with all that is required to get it right first time everytime, unless that is if the tune is way on the conservative side, perhaps ala Bugster.

One tuner put it to me this way, " The equivalent tuning software for LS1's allows the tuner to better understand the parametres in which a safe (non-pinging) tune can be created, regardless of the subject car".

As a result I believe the preferred approach to doing a custom tune, for the customer at least, is to start on the conservative side and work your way up over a number of Dyno runs / road tests until such time that the safe limits are established and to then settle for a tune that has a built-in safety margin.

Too be quite honest, to expect anyone to undertake 1/2 a dozen tunes in half as many days without the dedicated use of a Dyno is unrealistic. Add to this unprepared vehicles, lengthy phone interruptions, unforeseen mechanical issues, promised dyno time being retracted and a whole heap of other time consuming and concentration zapping external influences and it's no wonder the overall results may fall short of some customers expectations.

From memory, in all instances Nicks interstate road trips resulted from forum members requests for him to pay a visit not the otherway around. I can't talk for Nick but I'm sure he would have learnt from the recent spate of "travel tunes", and may well do things a bit different next time around.

I also experienced first hand Nick achieve and in my opinion surpass, what had taken another accomplished tuner alot longer to put together. This tells me, amongst other things, that Nick is a very capable tuner who is certainly deserving of the opportunity to fix any of his less than perfect tunes prior to them becoming the talking point of a public forum.

[Trough Lolly]

well said mate.

it cant be easy answering 2353266 questions from heaps of people when your got your head jammed into a laptop tuning cars. full credit to the bloke

[bugster70]

I also experienced first hand Nick achieve and in my opinion surpass, what had taken another accomplished tuner alot longer to put together. This tells me, amongst other things, that Nick is a very capable tuner who is certainly deserving of the opportunity to fix any of his less than perfect tunes prior to them becoming the talking point of a public forum.

Damn good post jordak, couldn't have put it better myself. Now I don't wanna come across as a Wog Stooge (heaven forbid!! ) but those that have experienced the Wog first hand will know exactly how much time, effort and immense care he puts into getting tunes right. By all accounts the SCT software isn't the easiest in the world to work with, and when guys like Nick are trying to push the boundaries for the betterment of his customers, they deserve, IMHO, all credit and to be shown a bit of understanding when things may go slightly awry.

Nick has never claimed to be the best tuner out there, but he sure tries damn hard.

[Street Tuner]

By all accounts the SCT software isn't the easiest in the world to work with, and when guys like Nick are trying to push the boundaries for the betterment of his customers, they deserve, IMHO, all credit and to be shown a bit of understanding when things may go slightly awry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Advantage software itself is simply a menu driven table editor. that's the very simple part. Its the factory BlackOak PCM that is extremely complicated and uses a lot of engineering based terminology, because it was designed to be tuned by enigneers. that's the Catch 22. If the tuners want full functionality, then they have to think like a factory engineer to get the very best from the system. If they want a simplified version then they wont have access to the full parameter list.

All of which is why we have four configureable 'User Levels' in the software (1 for simple, 4 for advanced) which allow different levels of access to some of the more sophisticated functions. While a professional calibrator might want the lot, there are some guys that specifically request a simplified version so that they can get tuning quickly.

For anyone that thinks the BA system is tricky now though, wait till the introduction of "Torque based throttle" control into Australia to replace the simple "Driver Demand" system that we have on our electronic throttles now. I spent two days just getting my head around this....and still have plenty of questions

Edited 09/11/05 10:51 PM by Street Tuner

[Nizpro]

Well said street tuner as you know the Focus has torque based throttle controll, and as you are aware we have already being working with turbo kits for them.It will certainly be a step learning curve for tuners

[Guest]

By all accounts the SCT software isn't the easiest in the world to work with, and when guys like Nick are trying to push the boundaries for the betterment of his customers, they deserve, IMHO, all credit and to be shown a bit of understanding when things may go slightly awry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Advantage software itself is simply a menu driven table editor. that's the very simple part. Its the factory BlackOak PCM that is extremely complicated and uses a lot of engineering based terminology, because it was designed to be tuned by enigneers. that's the Catch 22. If the tuners want full functionality, then they have to think like a factory engineer to get the very best from the system. If they want a simplified version then they wont have access to the full parameter list.

dw....could this be the problem? give me access to the other tables lurking in the back ground as they are more important than the ones we have access to!

JUST LIKE GAINING ACCESS TO KNOCK TABLES HAS BEEN USEFULL PITTY IT TOOK SOMEONE ELSE TO ACHEIVE THIS!

All of which is why we have four configureable 'User Levels' in the software (1 for simple, 4 for advanced) which allow different levels of access to some of the more sophisticated functions. While a professional calibrator might want the lot, there are some guys that specifically request a simplified version so that they can get tuning quickly.

dw....you may just provide the tool kit but can't do much with most tools missing!!! hamburger with the lot and descriptions with out the mistakes will do fine!!!

eg:knock boost retard, speed based tables, trans temp tables, limp mode tables/sclars to start with could be helpfull!!!

as stated before on this site I'd rather a full set of sidcrome than a .25 set of snap on

For anyone that thinks the BA system is tricky now though, wait till the introduction of "Torque based throttle" control into Australia to replace the simple "Driver Demand" system that we have on our electronic throttles now. I spent two days just getting my head around this....and still have plenty of questions

dw....why is this of no surprise? let me say the factory have a hard time getting there head around things!

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[bugster70]

JUST LIKE GAINING ACCESS TO KNOCK TABLES HAS BEEN USEFULL PITTY IT TOOK SOMEONE ELSE TO ACHEIVE THIS!

DW, could I just confirm that you DIDN'T have access to this when you were in the ACT? In other words, our knock sensors are still enabled 'cos that's what the factory/base tunes had?

[Guest]

Well said street tuner as you know the Focus has torque based throttle controll, and as you are aware we have already being working with turbo kits for them.It will certainly be a step learning curve for tuners

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how far off is the focus stuff!!!

or are we selective again????

got told 2 weeks at the training day!!!

have turbo kit for focus waiting for install!!!

[RAPHOON]

For anyone that thinks the BA system is tricky now though, wait till the introduction of "Torque based throttle" control into Australia to replace the simple "Driver Demand" system that we have on our electronic throttles now. I spent two days just getting my head around this....and still have plenty of questions 

This may be a little off topic but the torque based throttle sounds very interesting.

Could you please tell us a little more about this function and what it will achieve for the user/customer.

Thanks in advance.