Edit - The Act Experience

[Street Tuner]

Now lets put that car on the track and willing to bet it wont beat craigs times with more power

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on the money (as usual) Adam. There is more...much more....to tuning a car than giving it a run at wide open throttle and reading the power. While the car Joetech tuned made excellent power on that dyno run, there are several questions he will be unable to answer that WILL affect the way the car runs on the road or the track..

1) How close was the fuel strategy to flange or cat temp protect?

WHY? Because subsequent driving on the road will make the mixture vary up to 1 whole AFR point in either direction, making it very lean under some circumstances...This is why a lot of piggybacks need to be retuned at regular intervals for peak performance.

2) What was the 'Torque Source' of the engine during the run?

WHY? Was the throttle being partially shut due to over boost limitation, was calculated torque too high and spark being reduced which may then appear on the road as detonation? Again Joetech would never, and could never know.

3) Individual knock sensor cylinder readings, what were they?

WHY? Without monitoring the gains on each channel through the CAPA Flash Tuner software and controlling the detonation state of each cylinder. Which is why a lot of piggyback engines run great, then suddenly .... have issues ....

4) How far from MBT best timing was the engine?

WHY? Because calculations from actual timing then referenced to inferred or MBT timing can cause massive spikes in the desired timing if not mapped using the CAPA Flash Tuner which is why a lot of 'optimally tuned' piggyback cars can detonate like crazy on full load transmission shifts

5) What was the line pressure calculation for the transmission?

WHY? Because tricking the map sensor voltages to make the Ford PCM think it has less boost than actual also reduces the line pressure in the auto box which makes it slip excessively...and we all know what happens next.

This list could go on for several pages if I wanted it to. But the point is that we are not comparing apples with apples here. Like Simon from Nizpro put it - "Running a piggyback in conjunction with the CAPA Flash Tuner is like buying a new 42 inch LCD television, then keeping your old black and white on top just for old times sake." Wise words those

When Joetech gets his hands on his own Edit, which has been coming for a while, then we will be able to make comparisons. Until then, welcome to 1985.

Edited 01/11/05 05:29 AM by Street Tuner

[Eugene]

Now lets put that car on the track and willing to bet it wont beat craigs times with more power

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

23) Individual knock sensor cylinder readings, what were they?

WHY? Without monitoring the gains on each channel through the CAPA Flash Tuner software and controlling the detonation state of each cylinder. Which is why a lot of piggyback engines run great, then suddenly .... have issues ....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Martin,

Could you tell me how this is done, I was of the impression that the knock sensors were not "turned on" in the edit in its current v2.9 state, I am happy to be corrected if you could tell me how to do it.

I also feel that after running a warm (293rwkw) piggyback set-up, that the power edit can produce, and keep producing, time after time, is simply amazing, control over coolant temp, trans line pressures, shift points, SOFT rev limiters, are items NO Piggy back will ever do, and there in lies the biggest gains.

I am over the moon with the edit, but would like to have the Knock sensors running if I can.

Thanks

[jetute]

you have all been stooged

now tell us the truth dingah

[Master G]

The Autotech graph is for a Ute which will affect the comparison on the track a little and as I have found a BIG component of times on the track come from the driving skills. If we are simply comparing MPH then it will be interesting and I am sure when the ute is next run we can find out how it went.

I am one of those happy Unichip customers that has never had an issue with how my power comes on, how the car drives and never had pinging or other issues. Have I considered the edit, absolutely not as I don't feel a current lack with my cars drivability to spend another $1000-$1500 to see if there is a difference.

From a starting point if I was to purchase a new car today and start the mod path I would look into the Edit as it is another way to a means, however the level of quality I have seen from the APS equipment coupled with the sheer excellent support and service I get from Autotech/Spiro would mean that I would prefer to have him as my Tuner over the possible gains that an Edit may give.

I will be the first to say that I am learning how to drive well on the track and that my current time is not a true reflection of how well my car runs, but I am working on my skills there and know that Shahin will be running low 11's shortly with a goal to hit a magic 10 and get the permanent boot from WSID.

It is good to see that a discussion can take place where both sides of the fence can appreciate each others viewpoints and regardless of the outcome the winner here is the Modification Future of the XR6T/Typhoon range.

Regards

M G

[Street Tuner]

Hi Martin,

Could you tell me how this is done, I was of the impression that the knock sensors were not "turned on" in the edit in its current v2.9 state, I am happy to be corrected if you could tell me how to do it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would seem as though you are being fed misinformation here Eugene.

Advantage 2.9 is an EXE file, a command program that opens the database which contains the factory calibrations and all of their control parameters. Whether a tuner uses Advantage 2.8 or 2.9 is not going to affect their functionality to any significant degree.

From the very first Australian database (August 2004) the two primary knock sensor control tables (one for fast attack or burst knock, and one for slow correction) have been in there and working, just as they do on a standard car. After all we use the dead stock factory Ford program as the base.....Makes sense right?

Now if a tuner adds so much spark into the main timing map that the engine still pings with all of the knock control instigated (I.e. both fast attack and slow correction at maximum which will take out around 12 degrees of timing) then the engine will still ping regardless. Understand? The art of tuning is to keep the ignition timing away from the need for knock sensors, and then let the system utilise them in the case of an unexpected detonation event to do exactly what they are supposed to do - protect the engine.

Some engines make enough mechanical noise from the factory that the knock sensors can be active the whole time even in stock form, which would convince those less than switched on that they may not indeed work. By simply interrogating the OBD II data port on the XR6T with a decent scanner or the new CAPA data logger it is possible to monitor this knock correction in real time, and take the appropriate steps (recalibrate the knock gain tables).

Indeed the latest version of the Australian database which has been available to CAPA Flash Tuners for over a month now gives the tuner access to a host of different knock control tables including individual cylinder sensitivity to allow fine tuning of the knock system for forged piston/big cam applications where there is a pile of mechanical noise, and still have perfect control.

[Xtreme F6]

Dingah on a side note mate as to why your pcm crashed, I believe as ive seen something similar before that the piggy back can interfere with the signals and put noises on the bus line causing the pcm crash that you described, The reason why you dont really hear about it is because most ppl remove the piggy back before using edit and in most cases it will be ok.. But it isnt any fault of the capa box.

[joetech]

Here is another graph of an autotech customer with phase III system.

His car runs perfectly without detonation on 98ron fuel. It has a rebuilt transmission which not only copes with the near-1000nm torque the car produces but ensures the shifts are fast and firm. AFRs are also below 12:1 under load to ensure the engine always has enough fuel.

[Street Tuner]

Sorry, Im confused here....before making torque or air fuel ratio claims, how about you show us the NM (not newtons which is NOT NM) and AFR curves of the same run?

[Guest xrtwpn]

Dingah on a side note mate as to why your pcm crashed, I believe as ive seen something similar before that the piggy back can interfere with the signals and put noises on the bus line causing the pcm crash that you described, The reason why you dont really hear about it is because most ppl remove the piggy back before using edit and in most cases it will be ok.. But it isnt any fault of the capa box.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spot on Simon

that's what I was about to say

The interference (electrical noise) on the wiring loom from the Unichip is what caused the ecu to crash if he had of ripped the unichip off this wouldnt have been a problem

[Guest xrtwpn]

Here is another graph of an autotech customer with phase III system.

His car runs perfectly without detonation on 98ron fuel. It has a rebuilt transmission which not only copes with the near-1000nm torque the car produces but ensures the shifts are fast and firm. AFRs are also below 12:1 under load to ensure the engine always has enough fuel.

<div class='bbimg'>

</div>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Joetech

No offence here but you can post all the dyno graphs you want dyno figures can be fudged and made higher than they really are by happy dyno's until this car get down the track you have no real prof to back up these figures

Master G

Your comment about the car being a ute is stupid , a ute setup for drag racing will be better than a sedan due to the back end its a much better setup than irs