Edit - The Act Experience

[bugster70]

Let me take this opportunity to say publicly whatever the outcomes achieved, Nick and Glen the pair of you have shown legendary patience and professionalism throughout.

I'll second that! Nick and Glen, legends the both of you, thanks again guys!

I am now considering sneaking round to Buggy’s home and showing his wife how to re-flash his car so that she have more fun too!

You'll have to be quick mate, she was already asking me on the way to work this morning!!

If you're considering sneaking round to my place, your time would be better spent taking me for a spin in your car with the mad P3 map loaded up!!

[dingah2]

let's do it...if you promise not to be alarmed at 'chirping' !

Damn promised I wouldn't go there!

Dingah

[bugster70]

let's do it...if you promise not to be alarmed at 'chirping' !

Damn promised I wouldn't go there!

Alarmed?! Mate, it'll be quite the opposite, chirp as much as you like, that's what I wanna experience!!

[dingah2]

I need a lift from Russell to DTS at or around close of play to collect the remains of my car - you open to bribery?

Dingah

[meatBOOST]

There was one amusing episode where my car sounded more like a 747 on lift off when on the Dyno.  I turned around to see Glen sitting in the car with an astonished WTF look and I as advised that now the Edit had taken over the boost control it had elected to give 24psi boost rather than the 14 requested!!  At least all the hoses and clips were still intact!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to ruin the magic of it all, but the Flash Tuner software is a tool that alters the data in the factory tables. Nothing happens for no reason....although it might sound romantic and give a bit of head scratching...you get what you ask for. If you ask for 24psi it will give it, and it you dont it wont.

No one ever suggested that understanding the way the factory engineers do their job was easy, and now we are doing things the same way, the same level of understanding needs to be there from the tuners involved. While it might not make sense to you Dingah, for those that have a background in any type of engineering the concepts of Integral and Derivative gains etc that drive the boost control system are straight forward. Hope this helps explain things.

[bugster70]

I need a lift from Russell to DTS at or around close of play to collect the remains of my car -  you open to bribery?

I certainly am, but I guess it'd help if I actually had my car with me today?!

I generally catch the bus to work or drive then swap drivers and the missus takes the car home.

[ducatijb]

Good to hear its all coming together Dingah

[Eugene]

There was one amusing episode where my car sounded more like a 747 on lift off when on the Dyno.  I turned around to see Glen sitting in the car with an astonished WTF look and I as advised that now the Edit had taken over the boost control it had elected to give 24psi boost rather than the 14 requested!!  At least all the hoses and clips were still intact!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to ruin the magic of it all, but the Flash Tuner software is a tool that alters the data in the factory tables. Nothing happens for no reason....although it might sound romantic and give a bit of head scratching...you get what you ask for. If you ask for 24psi it will give it, and it you dont it wont.

No one ever suggested that understanding the way the factory engineers do their job was easy, and now we are doing things the same way, the same level of understanding needs to be there from the tuners involved. While it might not make sense to you Dingah, for those that have a background in any type of engineering the concepts of Integral and Derivative gains etc that drive the boost control system are straight forward. Hope this helps explain things.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome and nice second post.

if the tuning of these cars is as simple as you get what you ask for, why does every car I have seen react differntly to the same tune being applied..... lets see mechanical variables, different waste gate spring release times, different solinoid reaction time, different fuel pressure and dropping fuel pressure all have a huge effect on how these car respond to a known flash tune, yes, you ask for x and the flasher will give you x, but if the hardware on the car feels like giving you y, then that's what you will get, no matter how much you ask for x.

If all the cars were the same 100% in every way, then cool, what you say is true, but until then, there are any amount of variables.

[turbotom]

There was one amusing episode where my car sounded more like a 747 on lift off when on the Dyno.  I turned around to see Glen sitting in the car with an astonished WTF look and I as advised that now the Edit had taken over the boost control it had elected to give 24psi boost rather than the 14 requested!!  At least all the hoses and clips were still intact!

Sorry to ruin the magic of it all, but the Flash Tuner software is a tool that alters the data in the factory tables. Nothing happens for no reason....although it might sound romantic and give a bit of head scratching...you get what you ask for. If you ask for 24psi it will give it, and it you dont it wont.

No one ever suggested that understanding the way the factory engineers do their job was easy, and now we are doing things the same way, the same level of understanding needs to be there from the tuners involved. While it might not make sense to you Dingah, for those that have a background in any type of engineering the concepts of Integral and Derivative gains etc that drive the boost control system are straight forward. Hope this helps explain things.

Welcome and nice second post.

if the tuning of these cars is as simple as you get what you ask for, why does every car I have seen react differntly to the same tune being applied..... lets see mechanical variables, different waste gate spring release times, different solinoid reaction time, different fuel pressure and dropping fuel pressure all have a huge effect on how these car respond to a known flash tune, yes, you ask for x and the flasher will give you x, but if the hardware on the car feels like giving you y, then that's what you will get, no matter how much you ask for x.

If all the cars were the same 100% in every way, then cool, what you say is true, but until then, there are any amount of variables.

which is all the more reason for KNOWING WHAT YOU'RE DOING!

AND having knowledge on how all the system tables interact.

NO two cars will ever be the same! Engineering tolerances will account for that fact.

There is obviously still a lot to be learnt about the EDIT from all tuners.

Getting the most out of any car will always involve tweak, trial, evaluate and retweak and so on. Some tuners have known base maps for specific hardware combinations to start with, which saves on time and frustration in getting the best results.

Nick is pushing the envelope in extracting high power out of vehicles with standard components. Obviously playing around with tables and getting great results in some cars, but the same map will NOT be as effective in another because of the differences in not only user add on mods, but also the inherent variations in build tolerences.

FORD deliberately under rate (detune) the power capabilities of the Barra turbo to compensate for these variations.

When you tweak up for max performance on a given car, you lose that ability to compensate for the engineering tolerences across the board, and fuel variations. and ambient conditions that occur throughout Australia further complicate the situation.

At the end of the day, there is always a tradeoff between power output and reliability. It's a lot easier to get the power/reliability tradeoff in your favour when you spend the extra money on the hardware bits that improve the range of tolerance in the tune.... eg bigger injectors, free flowing exhaust, bigger IC, etc etc etc

Not to mention getting the (SSS) gearbox / (M) clutch strengthened.

chhers

tom

[meatBOOST]

if the tuning of these cars is as simple as you get what you ask for, why does every car I have seen react differntly to the same tune being applied..... lets see mechanical variables, different waste gate spring release times, different solinoid reaction time, different fuel pressure and dropping fuel pressure all have a huge effect on how these car respond to a known flash tune, yes, you ask for x and the flasher will give you x, but if the hardware on the car feels like giving you y, then that's what you will get, no matter how much you ask for x.

This is where you are wrong, and I think where wog must be getting it wrong. If you got him to show you the software and you understood it then you will see plenty of different Integral and Derivative gains as mentioned in my previous post. They are 'learn' factors that will get you where you want to be. The software in the Ford computer looks at these aims, and then works towards them under ALL circumstances regardless of mechanical difference. Now if you screw with these gains when in a hurry on a car you can get odd results.....but they are in fact what you asked for.

It takes a smart tuner to set these learns and gains right though which is why some will run into trouble when rushing a heap of cars on a day, they dont understand or know how the learns work, and this is where the problems start. Tuning with this software is not two trips around the block, nor is it childs play. Its a job for a smart and qualified tuner who has time and patience. Sorry to burst your bubble. This is also why a decent tune is more than a $200 exercise.