What Causes Pinging

[dutchie]

  turbotom said:

Just a couple of points to clarify.....

You have the EDIT, but is it a custom tune? 

If it is, what was your power output? 

If its > 250rwkw? have you increased the injector size?

One other query.  You said it only happens occasionally under full throttle....

Is it when you have less fuel in the tank? (like less than 1/3 tank full)

Answer these questions, and its a lot easier to determine your problem and provide you with a solution.

cheers

tom

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks guys for the feedback......just some further info.........

Car was dyno tuned today and I managed to get 242 RWKWs on stock injectors.

Autotechnique also regapped the plugs to .9mm.

At first it was down to half a tank.........so they used Octane Boost and I filed her up again...........Shell Optimax again........

Only happens once every 5-6 full pedal drops........but nothing when I gently increase pedal........

I phoned tuner and they asked to try Mobil Synergy 98........to see results.......

If still occassional pinging, Mario was good enough to say to bring it back.....

Hope this helps

[HUSTLER]

  Turbo6man said:

  HUSTLER said:

  Turbo6man said:

Even with sh!t fuel it should NEVER ping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a load of sh*t!! Try using coles 91 ron then go use BP 98, tell me that it doesnt make a difference!!! Foolish!! I would never run sh*tty arse fuel in my car, remember to run in your car exactly what you got it edited with, if you are still having the car ping, then yes, id be takin it back b4 the ping turns into a nasty bang!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No Sh!t at all - the car will run on any fuel without pinging if it has the proper tune. Factory tuned cars DON'T EVER ping because they are tuned for the best fuel that is available (98RON) and have knock sensors that can adjust the timing on the fly to eliminate pinging within millisecs of it occuring if someone uses a lower RON fuel. If a tuner has programmed an overly agressive ignition curve/tune that falls outside the max RON fuel available in Australia he should have his balls cut off and fed to the cops.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wouldnt they be tuned for the worst fuel avaliable!!! Hence why the better fuel dont ping!

[macka'sxr6t]

Dutchie something must be wrong. I'd be changing fuels then have Mario retune the car.

The pcm can pull out approx 8 degrees of timing in a millisecond or so.

To be safe I'd also chuck some larger injectors in it as well. Much cheaper option than an engine.

if you are going to try another fuel first try BP Ultimate. I've tried all the others when I was running 300 rwkw and its the only one that never pinged either in Vic or NSW. I think their QC is better very consistant fuel.

I bet you can't get the smile of your face

good luck with it

macka

[Eugene]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks guys for the feedback......just some further info.........

Car was dyno tuned today and I managed to get 242 RWKWs on stock injectors.

Autotechnique also regapped the plugs to .9mm.

At first it was down to half a tank.........so they used Octane Boost and I filed her up again...........Shell Optimax again........

Only happens once every 5-6 full pedal drops........but nothing when I gently increase pedal........

I phoned tuner and they asked to try Mobil Synergy 98........to see results.......

If still occassional pinging, Mario was good enough to say to bring it back.....

Hope this helps

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It sound more like timing than fuel to me, if you gentle put your foot down, the engine RPM will increase and help overcome the problem, if you floor it the engine is under full load trying to catch up and you get the pinging.

I am by no means an expert, but I remember playing with old carby/points cars and the pinging could be moved up or down the range with timing adjustments, also playing with the vacume advane(remeber them) unit to slow the advance and stop pinging.

Just my $0.02 worth, but if you regapped your plugs AFTER the tune, you have altered your timing too.

[Guest mercurysteve]

sounds a bit spooky Dutchie, I would agree with the others and change fuel supplier and retune, but not too aggresively.

good luck with it

[F6_Tornado]

Ping ping ping

So many things that can cause this so lets not be too harsh on the tuner or anyone for that matter.

Let’s see…. I want MAX hp so we tune the engine to 98RON and as such we can get a greater level of output than on 91RON…. But if we have trouble getting 98 then we may wish to have 2 tunes one for the 91~95 when that’s all we can get.

When tuning to the MAX, changing the fuel to a lower RON will cause it to ping and as such you risk the possibility of a failure and if this is a worry then tune it to the lowest fuel possible! The downfall with that is you will lose 20~30RWKW’s at least, But safe if your happy with that.. Or just run the factory tune and don’t bother modding your car.

With a higher Octane fuel comes the ability to alter timing to a greater extent and as said above timing will cause pinging if the timing doesn’t match the fuel it was timed to.

Engine temperature will also have an effect on pinging and you may well find that when the engine is cooler it won’t ping yet when HOT it does?

Many more but the best thing to do is get the tuner to look and do whatever is the best to make sure it’s OK

[gassit]

Hi Dutchie,

I had the edit installed the same day as you though different tuner. Rob Said to me if you hear any funny noises that don't seem right put the factory tune back in after noting when it happens.

e.g. Pinging @4500 under load or rattle under full throttle and he will make adjustments like taking timing out at certain rpms etc.

I have also have a 95RON tune when 98 isn't available.

Take it back to Mario and he will fix it, I'm sure as he is a responsibe tuner.

I would put the factory tune in it until he looks at it then nothing will break.

Kind regards

Steve

[Turbo6man]

  HUSTLER said:

  Turbo6man said:

  HUSTLER said:

  Turbo6man said:

Even with sh!t fuel it should NEVER ping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a load of sh*t!! Try using coles 91 ron then go use BP 98, tell me that it doesnt make a difference!!! Foolish!! I would never run sh*tty arse fuel in my car, remember to run in your car exactly what you got it edited with, if you are still having the car ping, then yes, id be takin it back b4 the ping turns into a nasty bang!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No Sh!t at all - the car will run on any fuel without pinging if it has the proper tune. Factory tuned cars DON'T EVER ping because they are tuned for the best fuel that is available (98RON) and have knock sensors that can adjust the timing on the fly to eliminate pinging within millisecs of it occuring if someone uses a lower RON fuel. If a tuner has programmed an overly agressive ignition curve/tune that falls outside the max RON fuel available in Australia he should have his balls cut off and fed to the cops.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wouldnt they be tuned for the worst fuel avaliable!!! Hence why the better fuel dont ping!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NO! If you tune for the worst fuel available you will lose performance and your tune will not allow you to make any benefit from higher RON fuel.

Your PCM cannot advance the timing if pinging IS NOT detected - all it can do is retard the timing if pinging IS detected.

If the factory settings can allow the car to perform to it's best under differing fuels so should the edit. If the tuner is allowing the engine to operate outside safe limits for the sake of gaining an extra 5kw he needs to have his balls cut off and thrown to the cops ... just thought that needed repeating for anyone who may have missed it

:msm:

[Turbo6man]

  jordak said:

  Turbo6man said:

  HUSTLER said:

  Turbo6man said:

Even with sh!t fuel it should NEVER ping.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What a load of sh*t!! Try using coles 91 ron then go use BP 98, tell me that it doesnt make a difference!!! Foolish!! I would never run sh*tty arse fuel in my car, remember to run in your car exactly what you got it edited with, if you are still having the car ping, then yes, id be takin it back b4 the ping turns into a nasty bang!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No Sh!t at all - the car will run on any fuel without pinging if it has the proper tune. Factory tuned cars DON'T EVER ping because they are tuned for the best fuel that is available (98RON) and have knock sensors that can adjust the timing on the fly to eliminate pinging within millisecs of it occuring if someone uses a lower RON fuel. If a tuner has programmed an overly agressive ignition curve/tune that falls outside the max RON fuel available in Australia he should have his balls cut off and fed to the cops.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If that was the case there would be a number of recognised tuners getting around with squeeky voices and an adversion to wearing speedos.

I'm no expert but I dont believe that tuning the edit is exact science hence the huge variances that forum members are experiencing with their edit results.

Sure if every tuner was to aire on the wayside of cautiousness with timing on stock injectors they may well be able to avoid pinging in all circumstances I.e. ambient temps, fueltype / levels etc. however this would come at a cost re customer expectation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A decent tuner will make the customer aware of these issues and will NOT put a customer's engine in jeopardy for the sake of gaining an extra few killerwhatsies.

A customer's expectation should firstly be the safe and efficient operation of his vehicle and, if the tuner is unable to convince the customer that using an agressive tune to achieve 5kw at the risk of blowing an engine is not a realistic expectation, then he would be best advised to suggest to the customer that he have the work done elsewhere.

[cutsnake]

  dutchie said:

I have had the CAPA Edit installed last week and today get the occassional ping.

Could this be a result of bad tank of petrol??

I use Shell Optimax............that's all the car has had since I bought her new in June last year.

I also had the plugs regapped this morning to .9 mm because she was surging a bit...... and the occassional ping happened after that........only happens occassionally when I try and floor her........

Any comments?

cheers in advance.........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Boost Creep is what is causing mine to Ping under the same circumstances. Do you have a boost gauge? If you do you will notice that it spikes around 20-30% more boost when you floor it (especially on auto kick down) before it settles to the nominted boost setting. My guess is that the sh*tty waste gates in the turbo can't keep up with the sudden boost change...

I think the best fix for mine would be some new injectors to cope with the extra fuel needed to keep up with the extra air during boost creep..

Cutsnake