What Are Peoples Thoughts?

[eXtreme]

Hi Guys,

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on the following article?

  Quote

I quite often see and hear misconceptions in regards to the best way to stop your car. In essence it doesn’t matter what people think, they can do what they want. But, if you ever do engage in emergency braking I would hope you would take the following information on board as it may potentially save your life.

Statement – ABS stops your car in the quickest possible way…

Fact – Wrong! ABS (Anti-Lock Braking System) simply locks and unlocks your brake rotor, allowing you to manoeuvre around an obstacle.

ABS works by locking and unlocking your brake rotor at a rate of around 10-15 times per second. It’s basically impossible for a human to do this in a non-ABS car.

ABS is also one of the worst forms of braking on unsealed roads (such as gravel, dirt etc.). The easiest and quickest way to stop on unsealed roads is to generally have a 100% lock-up. This allows your tyres to dig into the dirt and stop the car. ABS prevents this from happening and simply pushes your car further forward.

Statement – In an emergency you should gear down and brake, it’s the quickest way to stop.

Fact – “Gears are for moving, brakes are for stopping,” this quote refers directly to this misconception. Why waste time gearing down? You may simply confuse yourself and make the situation worse.

You may also cause a compression lockup which can be a further detriment in a RWD (Rear Wheel Drive) vehicle when manoeuvring around an obstacle. The last thing you want to happen is your wheels locking, gearing down will simply possibly allow this to happen even further.

Also remember when you push your clutch you engine is essentially coasting with no engine involvement, thus reducing your potential braking time.

Statement – The best way to stop is simply sit on your brake pedal as hard as you can.

Fact – In an ABS equipped vehicle I can only strongly recommend this, if you aren’t cracking the firewall you’re not pushing hard enough! If you don’t have an ABS equipped vehicle, for the love of God, don’t freeze up and hold your foot on the pedal.

Some people often reduce pressure on the brake pedal because they hear a shuddering noise or feel a vibration through the brake pedal. This is simply the ABS doing its job, the harder you push, the better it works. If you don’t have an ABS equipped car and you lock the brakes, it will immobilize your ability to steer the car. Once your tyre(s) is/are locked, even if you steer in an opposite direction your car will continue in a straight line. The most effective way to stop in this scenario and in any is what is called a Threshold Brake.

Here is the best information you will hear in a while. The best way to manoeuvre your way around an object and stop the quickest thereafter is ‘Threshold Braking’.

What does it mean?

Threshold braking is when the driver pushes the brake pedal to the point just prior to either brake lockup (non-ABS equipped vehicle) or the point just prior to ABS engaging (ABS equipped vehicle).

Locking your brakes in the wet increases your braking distance due to the tyres having less friction with the road (due to there being a layer of water in-between). A threshold brake simply allows your brakes not to lock and also gives you steering ability of your car in emergency situations which are two of the things you need the most.

So, how can you achieve a threshold brake? This is something that is individual to each and every car. One rainy day head out to an old country road or a quiet area with nobody around and from around 60km/h start applying pressure on your brake pedal and keep applying pressure until you feel/hear the brakes locking or feel/hear the ABS engaging. The point just prior to the lockup/ABS is your braking threshold and the point you want to achieve in an emergency situation.

You can only ever learn if you keep practising, so keep trying it whenever you get a chance with nobody around. Please note, if you use a threshold brake in an emergency and feel the brakes locking, simply lift your foot ever so slightly to get back to your braking threshold. When you pick up this method try using it to manoeuvre around an imaginary object and then try doing the same with a total brake lockup, you will easily notice the difference in your ability to control the car.

So let’s explore what could have happened if you believed some of the aforementioned myths…

Gearing down in an emergency – A car suddenly sticks its nose too far from a side street. You push in the clutch and think about which gear you want, during this entire time the engine is no longer adding/detracting from your speed and is simply free-spinning. You eventually select a gear but it’s too low. You cause a compression lockup and swerve to avoid the car. You are essentially doing a handbrake turn right now, the back end of your car ends up slamming into the car sticking out of the side street.

Hoping ABS will stop you the quickest – Same scenario as above. Car pops out of side street, you slam down the anchors and feel the ABS being enabled and simply think to yourself, “I have ABS, I’ll stop in time. It easily stops quicker than my non-ABS car”…BAM you hit the car. ABS did nothing in your case. To use it to its full advantage you would need to then steer to avoid the obstacle in front instead of hoping that your ABS equipped car will simply stop in time.

Slamming the brakes on in a non-ABS car – Again, same scenario. Car pops out and you jump on the brakes. The tyres lock up and you see you are going to hit the car, you turn the wheel lock to lock and still the car is heading straight and then BANG you hit the protruding car. If you achieved your braking threshold you would have been slowing down at the best rate possible along with having the ability to steer around the object in the way.

[cobrav8]

A few years ago I went on a Ford Advanced driving day through work at the local racetrack. It was a chance for them to display the 'new' escorts. mondeos etc as well.

So - one of the things was we had turns at driving through wetted road having to manouvere around a 'protruded car' (actually cones) with the ABS off. We progressively increased speed, and eventually only a couple of us made it without demolishing the cones.

Next we turned the ABS on and started at the higher speed - and almost everyone made it without destroying the protruding car. That to me was the point were I recognised the benefits of ABS, I had got through anyway, but only just, but for most people it got them out of trouble.

On the road since then - I have seen a few situations that could have been avoided with ABS (people locking up and staying locked, drifting into the back of other cars).

Recently I was on the motorway doing about 115, catching another car that would have been doing about 105 ish, and I had a Nissan 300ZX chasing me. We came over a rise and could see that the traffic had stopped just ahead - we all jumped on the breaks - car in front big, big lock up, on a wet road, hardly slowed down until he went under the motorway underpass where it was dry - which sent him a bit sideways and threw off heaps of smoke, meanwhile the XR6T just slowing down well - no dramas, I looked in the mirror - 300ZX closing, not looking like avoiding hitting the back of me - so I popped into the left lane, went around the guy in front who slammed sideways into the back of a small truck, and the 300zx just stopped short of him. I was certainly greatful of good breaks, and ABS in that case. Lucky for the front guy - the dry road did cut off quite a bit of speed - so they wernt that fast when they hit.

I have also done a BMW 3 series day, similar tests with ABS, but also some Traction control tests, same sought of deal, got lots of people out of sticky situations.

[Turbo6man]

There are simply too many generalisations in those statements - where can I start?

OK firstly the comments about ABS are generally true but not always. For example, the latest generation of ABS will stop a car effectively on gravel. The earliest systems certainly were problematical in this area. However NO ABS system will ever stop a car more quickly either on gravel or bitumen as an accomplished driver can. But for 95% of drivers it is a better option than having no ABS. Learning to drive a car with ABS requires many of the old school theories and practices to be forgotton - very hard for an old codger like me, so I would personally prefer a non-ABS car and use my own long-practiced techniques to avoid a situation.

As for the use of compression braking in an emergency it is very dependent on the initial speed of the vehicle. From a very high speed it is definitely beneficial. It is only likely to cause rear wheel lockup at relatively lower speeds, in which case there is no time in any event (in an emergency stop) to even physically complete any gearchanges.

As for knowing the braking threshhold of your vehicle, well, any kind of practice can only help I suppose, but to suggest that a person is able to learn this is farcical. The fact is that the braking threshhold will vary so much that NOBODY can ever say with any certainty what it is going to be in any given situation. A good driver will "feel" what his car is doing in an emergency stop and will react to it intuitively - a bad driver will simply NEVER be able to learn it. The braking threshhold will actualy change during the course of the emergency stop which is another thing that makes it so ridiculous to suggest that someone can go out and practice it to find out what it is.

[harvyk]

  Turbo6man said:

As for knowing the braking threshhold of your vehicle, well, any kind of practice can only help I suppose, but to suggest that a person is able to learn this is farcical. The fact is that the braking threshhold will vary so much that NOBODY can ever say with any certainty what it is going to be in any given situation. A good driver will "feel" what his car is doing in an emergency stop and will react to it intuitively - a bad driver will simply NEVER be able to learn it. The braking threshhold will actualy change during the course of the emergency stop which is another thing that makes it so ridiculous to suggest that someone can go out and practice it to find out what it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes and no, an bad driver will measure how far they put their foot down, a half decent driver will take notice of how the car feels, if you take note of how the car feels practise will make you a better driver in this case...

As for the article itself, meh , it is all stuff that has been said time and time again, I personally believe it is up to each of us to get to really know our cars stopping ability (and our own ability to stop zed car) and then drive within this... Whilst ABS may take longer to stop your car, a car equipped with ABS is likely to be newer with better brakes (overall), better suspension, better steering, better wheels and tires... So whilst ABS itself doesn’t improve your stopping distance, the combination of the above may do… (compared to your previous car…)

Just my 2c

[ZAP]

ABS is a good thing for most drivers in most conditions. the newer 4 channel ABS systems are great at keeping control of a car, and if you add a stability control system, you can make it idiot proof and this is great for the majority of moron drivers that polute our roads.

The biggest problem with ABS is teaching drivers how to use it.

I have witnessed several accidents that could have been avoided if the person driving knew what to do when they are emergency braking. you see them hit the brakes and then hold on for the ride, at no time have I seen someone with a ABS equiped car steer around the problem, instead they ran right up the back, or ripped the front of the car off.

The other thing I noticed about most drivers is that no matter how much training they have, if a car stops suddenly or there is a reason to do an emergency stop, most people will just slam on the brakes until the car has stopped. They do not look for a "threshold" even if trained to do so as they have only a split second to react and so they slam the brakes on.

I have bent a brake pedal I hit it so hard after a car crossed the center line and had a head on with me. I had maybe a 1/4 of a second warning and my training said HIT THE BRAKES HARD.

I think the article is vague and does not really tell us anythign we did not already know. ABS on dirt is not a good thing, but not having ABS on tar is worse, so I know what I would prefer.

[cobrav8]

I agree Zap. I have raced cars for 20 years now - and am really good at feeling the car, and hardly ever locked up while racing - but if someone pops out from a side street - or head on like you say - it is definately a different reaction than driving fast and slowing for corners. Its the OMG factor.

[harvyk]

I have had a few roo's jump out at me, and each time it's been the OMG factor controlling what I am doing (aka just get the car stopped, everything else = second)...

[Macktheknife]

At a full instruction day at the Mt Cotton driver centre a few months ago, a varied group of drivers and cars, as part of the training, were required to drive onto a wet skidpan at speeds comencing at 80 and increasing (for some) to 120.

At a random signal, brakes were to be applied at full emergency stop. The first few goes were in a straight line and then progressed to a witches hat chicane.

The cars varied from a Courier ute (No ABS) to a AUXR ute, various 4 & 6 cyl modern sedans and a current model Diesel Nissan Patrol.

The results were interesting. Standing adjacent to the stopping areas, I was very surprised at the (relatively) short stoping distances and also at the amount of cars that were still able to steer through the chicane. Even the Patrol..!! However. The courier ute left many casualties as you'd expect.

Of about 16 vehicles, there were only 3-4 car type people. The standout was a mid 40's Mum sales rep who improved her total car control on the day maybe 100%. (100K's onto the wet skidpan, full emergency stop with hands off the wheel)

Modern ABS ? IMO, unbeatable in 99% of cases.

Threshold braking? Good for the track.

However....Put a good 4 channel ABS on a slick equiped car on a wet track and I reckon the ABS would win out every time......

[iTec]

I agree with mack, if anybody really wants to learn to stop then go do a level 1 defensive driving day, the funny thing is that they are generally full of profesional drivers and sales reps as it is part of there occupational heath and safety that they have to do the course. These same companies then go and put there employees in cars (rodeo, courier ect) where ABS is still not standard. Why is it not standard? Because safety features like these cost money that companies are not willing to pay for....

[harvyk]

"defensive driving day" - that's my plan, just quickly for those who are under 25 and have any family member insured with AAMI you may be entitled to a free under defensive driving day paid for by AAMI... (My wifes car is insured with AAMI and yet I'm getting for free in the T

The way I see it is that if I come away with even the slightest improvment on my car control and driving style it will be a day well worth it...