Income Tax

[Cro]

Cro, I'm not disputing your old man is everything you say he is, but if he got taxed $60K, he must have earned a helluva lotta $$.  That's how the tax system works, you earn more, you pay more tax - and it's a progressive tax system too.  In general, I don't really think people can whinge when they pay more tax 'cos it normally means they're earning more money.  Tax is the price we pay for living in our civilised society and for all the services we are entitled to, etc.  And there has to be some sort of equity built in whereby less fortunate people (most through no fault of their own) do not have to pay as much tax, simply because they are the ones least able to afford it. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I actually should have added more.

I don't think he minds paying so much tax, what gets to him is all the whingers in the labour party asking why the rich get bigger cuts when the poor only get a small cut.

[bugster70]

I actually should have added more.

I don't think he minds paying so much tax, what gets to him is all the whingers in the labour party asking why the rich get bigger cuts when the poor only get a small cut.

And I agree with that - you only gotta read bcl's great analogy to explain why that is the case. Whilst I do believe in our welfare system, and think we have one of the best welfare/health systems in the world, I gotta say that the Coalition policies are much better, financially, for my wife and me. I still can't believe (and I actually think this particular policy is wrong) that they would pay a baby bonus of the magnitude that they are to people like us!

[ZAP]

Cro,

The reason the ALP whinge about the rich getting a bigger pay cut is they have not much else to whinge about.

On a % basis the rich get less than the poor. All you need to do is look at the example bcl posted up.

The problem is that most of the ALP voters have NFI and believe the crap that Kimmie sprouts.

Politicians will always twist the truth to suit their own agenda.

[harvyk]

Just to add my 2c

{start rant}

I used to earn not very much but I saw most of it go into my pocket

In my current job I did some good negotiation and I work hard and the govt says that's great we'll now take more...

the govt didn't help me negotiate, the govt isn't helping me work harder but they feel their entitled to more of my hard earned cash???

But it gets better, my wife is a uni student, before I used my good neg skills she would have gotten study allowances, now I'm expected to help her through uni because I earn to much pre-tax... Whilst I earn a load it's not enough (not after the govt helps themselves to their share ), so she also has to work and study at the same time, whilst someone whom ain't working is getting it all for free... (And ppl complained when I was going to get an extra $26 a week, it doesn't really cover the fact that the govt takes so much and gives me so little, whilst someone whom aint working by choice gets far more than that...)

{end rant}

And before anyone says anything it aint a case of poor little rich kid, it wass almost easier when I wasn't earning anything, at least then everything was handed to me on a plate...

[tab]

  And there has to be some sort of equity built in whereby less fortunate people (most through no fault of their own) do not have to pay as much tax, simply because they are the ones least able to afford it. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you justify that though, yes there are some very unfortunate cases but definitely not “most”.

I moved to the big smoke with almost nothing, could get no govt assistance as my parents were rich in assets (but almost no cash and no ability to sell the said assets), started on well below minimum wages (apprenticeship) and have managed to find my feet and am now in a well paying job. This was through nothing but hard work and dedication.

What sh!ts me though is that after all of this hard work and dedication I pay more tax to support those that can’t support themselves either because they are genuinely misfortunate (the minority) or couldn’t really be bothered having a decent go.

Trent.

[bugster70]

My point is that when you were earning below minimum wages, I would have classified you as "less fortunate" and would not have had a problem with you paying lower taxes, claiming other benefits where appropriate, etc. Sure, there are too many dole bludgers (in the real sense of the term) out there, but I'd reckon there'd be more who were genuinely able and willing to work for some $$ and deserve some assistance.

I think it'd be fairly safe to say that most of the members here have worked damn hard to get to where we are and to be able to afford to buy a T in the first place, but I for one also consider myself quite lucky to be where I am. Lucky that my parents gave me a good education, lucky that my hard work at uni, etc, paid off (I know of many graduates who worked damn hard to get good grades and are still unable to find jobs, for example), and so on.

I've always erred on the side of social welfare rather than out and out capitalism. SUre, I love making lots of money and spending it, but I think we should spare at least a thought for those in less fortunate circumstances.

This has all got a bit serious, hasn't it?!

[BA_Turbs]

Come work the van for 12 hours with me and I can bet that any slight shred of belief in our welfare system will be banished forever. Believe me, people don't see how the other side lives and what they do with "thier" welfare money.

[harvyk]

I've always erred on the side of social welfare rather than out and out capitalism.  SUre, I love making lots of money and spending it, but I think we should spare at least a thought for those in less fortunate circumstances.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no qualms in helping the less fortunate, I have a problem with the govt stepping in and taking so much more for which they did nothing to help with but when it was the other way around (needing money to get onto feet) they basically said oh well based on the fact your parents earned $x 2 years ago (before mum was made redundant) you obviously don't need help now... yet now we where earning about half what we where 2 years ago to that I'd like to say "that's nice that's my parents money your talking about not mine..."

The other thing that really pisses me off I know someone else whom get given from the govt the same amount of money per week for doing nothing as I had to work 40 hours a week to get, what is more is that she could do a couple of hours work and keep all the money (tax free because she didn't "earn" enough) She was able to claim a disability allowance (even though she is not disabled) and she chooses to work under the 15 hour per week allowance before they start taking money away, she could easily get a full fledged 40 hour per week job and yet she chooses not to... It's things like this that piss me off...

I'm not saying get rid of social welfare (that causes problems for everyone) I'm saying the govt should be helping ppl regardless of how rich their family \ friends \ long lost cousins aunt's dog is... Bring in a flat tax system (get rid of the so call tax brackets and make it a percentage) and iron out the loopholes which mean the very rich avoid paying tax, the poor either get poorer or cheat the system and stop taxing the stuffing out of the average aussie...

/Rant number 2

[bugster70]

Yeah, it's a very touchy subject this one and, as with most controversial subjects, there are plenty of differing opinions. And, obviously, many people feel very strongly about it.

I agree about the dole bludgers, and there are always those that will rort the system and give the rest of us something to howl about. The example you give, harvyk, is something that would give me the sh1ts too, don't you worry about that! Some of my extended family members really free ride the system too, and it pains me to think that it's people like me supporting what is basically their sheer laziness. But I still believe we need a welfare system and, unfortunately, I don't think anyone will ever come up with a perfect solution.

Raise the GST? The poorer people are disproprotionately disadvantaged. Flat tax rate? Ditto to a certain extent, but more that high income earners are not taxed appropriately (uh oh, flame suit on! ). And the list could go on ad infinitum...

[sixfan]

Just how much of the average aussies tax $$ goes to welfare I wonder?

just what IS the split of the tax dollar? Does anyone know?