Edit Facts And Figures

[dingah2]

THe irony with the case in point is everyone else on the dyno day was consistently down by 5-20RWKW and the Edit but was up by 20. Parden our suspicions but..........

You can flow the exhaust system as much as you like, 273RWKW in an auto on standard inejctors appears rather like a infamous tale about loaves and fishes - you need fuel to produce power not just air and reduced backpressure and that much power just cannot be controllable from standard inejctors at and beyond their max duty cycle.? By his own confession it runs like crap I recall the words were..

True or false and why - the expert opinions please.

Dingah

[Dannopower]

THe irony with the case in point is everyone else on the dyno day was consistently down by 5-20RWKW and the Edit but was up by 20.  Parden our suspicions but..........

You can flow the exhaust system as much as you like, 273RWKW in an auto on standard inejctors appears rather like a infamous tale about loaves and fishes - you need fuel to produce power not just air and reduced backpressure and that much power just cannot be controllable from standard inejctors at and beyond their max duty cycle.? By his own confession it runs like crap I recall the words were..

True or false and why - the expert opinions please.

Dingah

Actually, he told me it runs a little rough at about 3000rpm, but over that it runs really neat! He also told me and a few others that the edit hasnt been re-tuned to the exhaust and cat mods to stabilize it correctly. He has shown his AFR's dont run any higher than 13 and lower than 12.

He also told me that he doesnt flog the crap out of it anywhere over 5000rpm until it has been re-tuned, barring a few dyno runs!

He is a bit of a dickhead, dont you think Dingah?

[dingah2]

THe irony with the case in point is everyone else on the dyno day was consistently down by 5-20RWKW and the Edit but was up by 20.  Parden our suspicions but..........

You can flow the exhaust system as much as you like, 273RWKW in an auto on standard inejctors appears rather like a infamous tale about loaves and fishes - you need fuel to produce power not just air and reduced backpressure and that much power just cannot be controllable from standard inejctors at and beyond their max duty cycle.? By his own confession it runs like crap I recall the words were..

True or false and why - the expert opinions please.

Dingah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, he told me it runs a little rough at about 3000rpm, but over that it runs really neat! He also told me and a few others that the edit hasnt been re-tuned to the exhaust and cat mods to stabilize it correctly. He has shown his AFR's dont run any higher than 13 and lower than 12.

He also told me that he doesnt flog the crap out of it anywhere over 5000rpm until it has been re-tuned, barring a few dyno runs!

He is a bit of a dickhead, dont you think Dingah?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am as intersted as anyone to see if indeed Edit IS the way to go rather than APS and am intent on geting some informed advice from those that are in the industry which to-date has been all over the place and much of it contrary to your aclaimed achievements.

Why is this so?

Buggered if I know, other than the calculations that show the theoretical max duty cycles of standard injectors with standard fuel pressure should only give a max of about 230-235RWKW with "safe" AFRs.

Have a long read of the past issues and arguments over Edit vs APS and you'll conclude that someone out here ppaears to be either misleading or is being misled and my quest is to find out the engineering truth so I can make an informed decision without piles of emotion clouding the issue.

When that is established and not before, the rest of us can then make a value based judgement on which is the better direction to take.

I am quite prepared to take the Edit path rather than APS as I would like to have the BEST solution as and when the facts are proven; currently there appears to be too much claim and counter-claim and this recent example of the 273RWKW with Edit and standard injectors provides an opportunity to re-open the debate and if anyone is going to come up and say that Danno's results are bullsh*t they better have a darn good explanation.

As for Danno, relax you are a test case/exmaple that's all, in the meantime go easy on that transmission.

Speaking of which I have never experienced the delay between R & D in the SSS auto but as you stated in your post that may indeed be down to the valve body mods - and there's another black hole of opinions versus fact.

Cheers,

[ZAP]

Ding,

If I remember correctly the was a thread that doubted Dynowogs claim of 300rwkw on stock injectors that had full engineering details on the stock injectors. I cannot find the info, but one of our experienced forum members posted up the flowrates/fuel pressures and tech details.

I think they said that 260rwkw was 100% duty cycle for a new injector with perfect fuel pressure.

Unbfortunatly this was one of the threads that fell apart with abuse between everyone (APS/DW/ST) and was closed or deleted.

Maybe one of the mods can help, I think it was Aug/Sept 04.

[xrturb]

ohh yeah I remember the one ..the one where peter(aps) spiro bagged DW and could not prove him wrong

ohh I remember ..all swept under the carpet

[F6 RAPID]

Ding, you're on the right path though - I have similar concerns and have seen injectors at 100%duty cycle first hand on my ute at way less than 250rwkw's.

To my knowledge, even if you mod using edit, you cannot "tune" a lack of fuel out to keep safe AFR's. If you don't have fuel because it physically cannot be delivered, you don't have fuel. Simple. You can't say to edit to put more fuel in when the injector can not physically flow it.

Beats the hell out of me. I just know why I have seen first hand with my car - it needed bigger injectors to keep flowing more fuel to produce more power.

[CountryPhoon]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PARTIAL QUOTE FROM DINGAH (Above):

I am as intersted as anyone to see if indeed Edit IS the way to go rather than APS and am intent on geting some informed advice from those that are in the industry which to-date has been all over the place and much of it contrary to your aclaimed achievements.

Why is this so?

Buggered if I know, other than the calculations that show the theoretical max duty cycles of standard injectors with standard fuel pressure should only give a max of about 230-235RWKW with "safe" AFRs.

Have a long read of the past issues and arguments over Edit vs APS and you'll conclude that someone out here ppaears to be either misleading or is being misled and my quest is to find out the engineering truth so I can make an informed decision without piles of emotion clouding the issue.

When that is established and not before, the rest of us can then make a value based judgement on which is the better direction to take.

I am quite prepared to take the Edit path rather than APS as I would like to have the BEST solution as and when the facts are proven; currently there appears to be too much claim and counter-claim and this recent example of the 273RWKW with Edit and standard injectors provides an opportunity to re-open the debate and if anyone is going to come up and say that Danno's results are bullsh*t they better

Cheers,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Guys.

Just to add to my "confusion" here - yesterday I spoke with one of the "name" tuners that has been recommended by several people on this forum. He told me that I could expect a 'safe' 40kw improvement on my Phoon with edit ALONE. So if that gives me say 260rwkw, why are the injectors not a limiting factor on F6 - when they are the same injectors as on XR6T??

[DBOSS]

Guys.

Just to add to my "confusion" here -  yesterday I spoke with one of the "name" tuners that has been recommended by several people on this forum.  He told me that I could expect a 'safe' 40kw improvement on my Phoon with edit ALONE.  So if that gives me say 260rwkw, why are the injectors not a limiting factor on F6 - when they are the same injectors as on XR6T??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

260rwklw Is the limit

[dingah2]

Perhaps I am being too optimistic but I guess I am asking to re-visit that issue but without emotion - I wondered why I couldn't unearth that thread. I do not see myself as being any different than the next bloke in that I would like to get the best and safest bang for the buck. There was no Edit when I invested in APS Phase II and have been VERY happy with the results. A couple of younger T owners have since come to me questioning which way to go now and although I can speak confidently for and of APS mods the clarity of outcome with Edit appears less clear. I did recall the various arguments that went beetween Peter and Dynowog (most of it in capital letters in 56 point Font!) and as best I could decipher the pros and cons, Edit was great in offering custom tune and different maps and with Edit alone a safe max of 230-235RWKW was available which equated pretty darn close to APS Phase I. THis was good as there was now a competitive choice. Most recently, young Danno popped up with much higher figures than that apparently blowing those well worn theories out of the water. Rather than mislead folk who ask a genuine question I am trying to get to the bottom of this and really the question I have is:

....If you had a customer off the street that wanted to go the Edit path but due to financial constraints or whatever wished to have that as his only significant mod (maybe 2nd CAI/centre muffler out as well) with normal fuel delivery system what would a safe custom tune expect to produce in terms of power in a SSS auto BA Turbo. The second part is if then 968 or equivalent inejctors were fitted and the Edit re-mapped what is a reasonable power level achievable with that configuration? Assume that it is not a lease vehicle but fully owned and has to be completely reliable for the long term.

Thanks in advance and I look forward to becoming more informed.

Dingah

[DBOSS]

Hey Ding a 230 rwklw Edit would smoke any Aps PH 1 but to run any system over 260 rwklw with std injectors is just dangerous IMO

CYA JEFF