Edit Facts And Figures

[dingah2]

Thanks Jeff.

Can I then ask what are the dangers that give you cause for concern.

Cheers mate,

Dingah

[F6_Tornado]

By using the word “SAFE” some tuners convince customers to buy more parts which take more labor to fit so all in all more profit, and cover’s their ASS if something goes wrong so they awe on the side of caution.

It also allows for a greater margin of error in tuning with a larger window to obtain the said output allowing for variations in engine condition, Tuners, weather etc.

To make more than 245RWKw’s with just and edit takes probably a better tuner and a good vehicle to start with and allows very little margin for error. And I suppose your bordering on the edge with A/F and some just don’t trust themselves or their tuners to do it.

I personally think most tuners play on the SAFE limits a bit to much and milk it way way to much for what its worth…$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I also have no doubt in my mind that some tuners can get 260rwkw’s safely and some who can get even more.

Now the type of tune you would personally like may not be quite as easy as you have no margin to play with like when you have bigger injectors you have more room to custom edit to suit your request.

Just find a good tuner who looks after you in two ways

1) Great service

2) Look after your pocket $$$

Some supply GREAT service and are second to none with PR…… BUT you pay through the nose for it.

Some Car tuners are no different to Car salesman and we all know what 95% of those are like.

The problem being with all this is a custom tune and edit will get you the 250 no worries at all “IF” all things are OK and in perfect running order.

What happens when the tuners can’t reach this target and does some checking and the Air filter is blocked?

The turbo plumbing has loose clamps?

The throttle body is gummed up?

The Bov is faulty?

The fuel filter is blocked?

Fuel pressure is low?

Fuel flow is low?

Plugs are U/S at that power level?

You can’t get 98 octane Fuel?

Intercooler is blocked with Grasshoppers?

Turbo wheels are worn and losing boost?

The Cat is blocked?

So on and So on the list goes

Who pays for the custom tune then?

How much is a custom tune worth now?

How much will it cost to rectify any faults?

Etc etc etc

So why can Joe get 260 and I can only get 240?

All makes sense to me!! so I don’t see what all the fuss is about and why so many people question others results when the way I see it is most vehicles vary slightly and even more so once they have been owned by someone and have some km on them.

240>>> 250>>>260 who gives a toss as long as your happy and it works for you then just DO IT!!

[bugster70]

240>>> 250>>>260  who gives a toss as long as your happy and it works for you then just DO IT!!

 

The more I read about all this, the more I am inclined to agree with F6_Tornado's comment. This constant rivalry in trying to get the highest rwkw seems crazy to me. As we all know, what one guy gets on one dyno may (and probably will be) completely different to what he gets on another dyno. So trying to compare rwkw figures done on different dynos is like comparing apples and oranges, as the old saying goes.

Quite frankly, does it really matter?! If you're happy with your tuner, you're happy with the way your car runs, and you're happy in your own mind that your car is producing that level of power 'safely', then who gives a sh1t WHAT the bloody dyno readout tells you?!

I can understand people swapping from APS to Edit to get around things like over-riding the high stall issue that can't be addressed by the current APS gear, but to go to that sort of expense just to get a few more rwkw's?! You'd be better off spending the money on something like a better intercooler, air intake system, whatever, and getting even more, 'safer' power?!

Dingah, having read that I can see how you might think it's a shot at you - trust me when I say it isn't mate. I know all you're after is the engineering evidence behind the claims and to be able to understand the Edit better to then be able to pass on informed and unbiased advice to people like me who come to you for your views! But I don't think a lot of others are in the same boat? I'm not looking to get flamed here guys, just trying to agree (in a very roundabout way! ) with F6's comment!!

[DBOSS]

Thanks Jeff.

Can I then ask what are the dangers that give you cause for concern.

Cheers mate,

Dingah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just from my own experiences as my first T with unichip max was 250rwklw and my 2nd T was an Edited 245 rwklw and was told both were on there injector limit by two different tuners, so take into account a little bit of over tuning and that's why I said I think anything over 260rwklw IMHO could be a problem

But the fact that some dyno's read higher than others could be behind such a high reading as well

CYA JEFF

[XRSEX]

Thanks Jeff.

Can I then ask what are the dangers that give you cause for concern.

Cheers mate,

Dingah

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just from my own experiences as my first T with unichip max was 250rwklw and my 2nd T was an Edited 245 rwklw and was told both were on there injector limit by two different tuners, so take into account a little bit of over tuning and that's why I said I think anything over 260rwklw IMHO could be a problem

But the fact that some dyno's read higher than others could be behind such a high reading as well

CYA JEFF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[dingah2]

Some useful insight and understand the points made. Bugster - of course I'm ok with what you say BUT my point is missed in amongst this there is a HUGE difference between APS and Edit if you end up with the same result of 260-270RWKW but at 1/3 the cost. Edit alone compared with Phase II is a far cheaper option so beware of trivilaising the fact they can both apparently produce the same power and it's down to who's happy with their tuner. Edit can be on and off in a flash (no pun intended) Phase II cannot. Edit costs say $1500-1800 with a fair degree of mapping time and Phase II is three times that cost. Why the Hell do think I would want to re-visit this quagmire of debate if the differences were so trivial?

Cheers (still smiling and listening though!)

Dingah

[bugster70]

Yes, you have a point there! I guess I was thinking of those that already had the APS kit and have changed to Edit 'cos it's newer and/or better, when the money could have been better spent on other things. But yeah, for those starting from scratch and wanting best bang for their buck, this is all good stuff to know!

I'll pull my head back in now...

[dingah2]

might see a Unichip up for sale soon eh Bugster?..............!

My advice - don't be too hasty there is more water to travel under this ol bridge before all is revealed and understood.

Dingah

[Romulus]

260rwkw is the maximum power I could get out of my car with the stock injectors, running 11.8 - 11.9 AFR @ peak rpm, tuned with edit only - no other mods. Boost had to be tapered off to ensure the fuel system could keep the AFR's at a 'safe' level. I'd highly recommend changing injectors when exceeding 250rwkw.

This is an interesting thread - however no one wants to state what a 'safe' AFR is. We're not talking about all makes and models here, rather specifically, XR6 Turbo's.

My car's been tuned for 11.5 - 11.7 AFR for peak power, but I'm left somewhat confused when I hear other cars are tuned at 12.5 - 12.8 AFR - comparable with N/A AFR's.

Scary stuff when 'safe' is the term used to determine optimum AFR's.

Anyone ever watch drag video's of Jap cars (GTR's, Supra's etc) and notice the black weed pissing out of the exhaust when they're flying down the track running hi 9's / low 10's. Bet ya there definition of 'safe' AFR's aren't mid - low 12's. Rather mid 10's - low 11's.

Edited 20/07/05 08:24 AM by M6 XR6T

[dingah2]

Mine vary throughout the range to match with boost changes, torques coverter lock up and so forth. Lower revs low power about 11.9 and then rising to 11.3 when boost gradient at its steepest, easing to 11.5 and then richening up again to about 11 when power really on. No pinging and temps all good.

Dingah