6 Speed Auto

[Turbo6man]

Lighten up Lawsy ... no one was attacking you either. Actually I CAN do a better job than some so-called professional engineers but that's not under discussion here ...

EVLKNEVL> Lotsa rumours about but I can't see Ford using any more than one box through the range. Just not cost efficient. However the shift control may be "personalised" to suit each different model. It's all software controlled so would be relatively easy to make the Fairlane box behave more like the slushers of old and the FPV range of vehicles to hammer the changes much more quickly. But, from all accounts this box doesn't need that kind of fine tuning as it does everything almost to perfection in any case.

[ZAP]

The July 05 Motor magazine has the 6 speed almost confirmed for Sept/Oct 05 for the FPV range

[Lawsy]

Actually I CAN do a better job than some so-called professional engineers but that's not under discussion here ...

Ok I'll lighten up, my bad....

One last thing though, I'm not sure any of us really know what pressure the design team has been placed under while they come up with these specifications and such... Budgets to be met, time restrictions, resource restrictions....

Allot of things could be better, but is it cost affective? Can it be finished and completed in 3 months? etc etc.......

Allot goes into it, and most humans tend to forget small things when under extreme pressure...

So I guess what I'm saying is, give some of them a break... Sometimes its not the designers fault... They did the best they could, then gave it to the manufacturer to build something as close as possible to the design... That isn't always the case.

[Grass]

I wait for proof in the pudding.

I know my physics, I know pretty much how gearbox and Diff design work (I qon't admit that I'm partially responsible for the 4speeds you guys have, cause I don't want to get flamed) , but it doesn't matter how far the revs drop as long as you stay within the Torque curve, which we have from 2500-4000, so the only advantage will be the quicker shifting and hopefully the removal of the torque tagging....

And Auto's don't need to drop the revs to pick up the next gear, that's that the torque converter is for..

And as for running a tighter torque converter ? Is there such a thing ?

The 4Speeds have a lockup torque converter, so you aren't going to get any better economy out of an Auto that you are now...

Remember, it still takes a lot of valuable engine horsepower to run the pumps and push that oil.....

[Lawsy]

I wait for proof in the pudding.

I know my physics, I know pretty much how gearbox and Diff design work (I qon't admit that I'm partially responsible for the 4speeds you guys have, cause I don't want to get flamed) , but  it doesn't matter how far the revs drop as long as you stay within the Torque curve, which we have from 2500-4000, so the only advantage will be the quicker shifting and hopefully the removal of the torque tagging....

And Auto's don't need to drop the revs to pick up the next gear, that's that the torque converter is for..

And as for running a tighter torque converter ? Is there such a thing ?

The 4Speeds have a lockup torque converter, so you aren't going to get any better economy out of an Auto that you are now...

Remember, it still takes a lot of valuable engine horsepower to run the pumps and push that oil.....

No offence, and I'm sure you know what you are on about, but it's just that everyone else seems to disagree with you...

Most motoring magazines, who have plenty of engineering nouse behind them, seem to think that economy will improve as well as performance. And yes, it does matter if the revs drop less between each shift...

Think about it, gears are a ratio. Gear ratios multiply the torque. If you can have a higher torque value at the rear wheels for the duration of the quarter mile, then you are going to have more force pushing you forward. This also equals a higher average horsepower applied over the quarter mile because the revs are always higher.

Which brings me to my next point, when it comes to outright quarter mile times, its horsepower that does the trick... Horsepower is how much torque can be applied over time. Its the work done. So the the higher the average horsepower you can apply to the rear wheels over the entire quarter mile, the lower your ET will be... MPH will improve sightly as well, but your ET will most certainly improve...

Its a concept I've only just got my head around, average horsepower applied... But it makes a whooooole lota sense when you see just what the difference that it makes is... What gave me the revelation of this was Pro Stock cars. The don't put out thousands of horsepower like door slammers, but they run similar ETs at less MPH. They have less outright power, but they have 5 or 6 speed's in them, very VERY fast shifting 5-6 speeds (auto's I think, the clutch is only for laucnh.. Not sure, will have to get back on that), and the average applied horsepower (not torque, torque is not as close) over the quarter mile is similar... If just a little less.

Meh, I think its a fascinating concept, then again, I love anything that makes power and loud noise.... But you get that

[Turbofalke]

Anyone have any idea when the 6 speed typhoon will be released as I am seriously thinking about getting one and fitting the aps11 kit to it off my xr6t.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The word is if all goes to plan when the MKIII are out in October and only for the FPV line up, GT and F6. There was a GT spotted at ZF headquarters in Germany as reported by wheels or motor I can't remember which one.

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If history is anything to go by, the earliest I could get delivery of a MKII was December 04 after it was released in Oct 04. Mainly because of custom options which ment that I had to wait for the build through the factory. No options would have made a Mid Nov delivery possible.

I suspect that the foon will be in demand and waiting lists will be long.

[fatz]

went for a ride in a zf equiped bmw

man you bearly can feel the changes

if its anything like that.... very nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

still would buy a manual

[tab]

And as for running a tighter torque converter ? Is there such a thing ?

The 4Speeds have a lockup torque converter, so you aren't going to get any better economy out of an Auto that you are now...

Remember, it still takes a lot of valuable engine horsepower to run the pumps and push that oil.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The current box only locks up with constant speed and constant throttle position – I.e. cruise control set. I assume by “tighter torque converter” that his will happen more often across a broader rev range in the new box.

Trent.

[Grass]

3:1 is lower than 4:1....

Not quite, 3:1 = 1/3 = 0.33

4:1 = 1/4 = 0.25

0.25 is lower than 0.33, so 4:1 is lower than 3:1

It's a ratio, not a number.

Exactly right - numerically higher means lower ratio. Simple really, and it's always been described that way, well since Adam was in nappies anyway. I really don't think ANY car enthusiast would be confused by this.

Just some further info on why this auto will be quicker than the current four speeder - it has convertor lock-up from 1500rpm in EVERY gear, (yes even reverse). So less slip means both more direct AND constant drive to the wheels

The BTR 4 Speed can do that, if someone wants to program it.

The 4 Speed BTR box was the first of its kind IN THE WORLD......

Complete Electronically controlled for shift quality and shift points...

Programed correctly, the 4Speed box is a real magic box

[Grass]

Just to add a little.

The CL 65 AMG makes 1000nm of torque standard and still runs a 7 speed auto.

Believe me it makes a difference even down the quarter!

Provided that the box is strong enough and built well enough to handle it.

Yeah, but what does the torque curve look like.

Unless it is flat, like the XR6T's then the gear ratio's make a huge difference.

The whole concept behind the CVT is that you tune your engine to run in a very small rev range, say from idle (1000rpm) to 2500rpm. The you can tune the engine to produce LOTS of power and be very very efficient and use the CVT to accelerate the car.

Most large combine Harvesters use this theory, as a free reving engine is not effiecent for power production nor for economy....