Traction Control Dis-engaging

[Cobra]

Daz just pointed out to me that I appear to be pushing for the interceptor chips in this thread and sh!tting on the edits.

I'm not

I just want see the ETC issue given its proper attention and fixed

sorry if I have come across as a stooge, I'm not clever enough to be one of them

[Dagabond]

Caveat Emptor

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Daz just pointed out to me that I appear to be pushing for the interceptor chips in this thread and sh!tting on the edits.

I'm not

I just want see the ETC issue given its proper attention and fixed

sorry if I have come across as a stooge, I'm not clever enough to be one of them 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please dont misconstrue my word's.

Mole Hill

Mountain

[Cobra]

I'll put it down now .... well .... hmmm .... ahhh ... d'oh

[C.S.I]

So Street Tuner or Fordpower, any more info yet on a resolution.

And once its resolved, how do all and sundry get the fix into their flasher??

I would assume that the Custom Edit'ed boxes will have to be returned to the Edit'or for a modified (fixed) version of their custom tune(s).

For those with stock Edits, could they be re-downloaded by ANY Edit dealer, or will it be back to CAPA via Australia Post ??

[tab]

Caveat Emptor

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Daz just pointed out to me that I appear to be pushing for the interceptor chips in this thread and sh!tting on the edits.

I'm not

I just want see the ETC issue given its proper attention and fixed

sorry if I have come across as a stooge, I'm not clever enough to be one of them 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Please dont misconstrue my word's.

Mole Hill

Mountain

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ahh, a picture says a thousand words doesn’t it. You must have a pretty extensive image library dags as you seem to have a picture for every occasion.

I'll be off now to try and get my traction control to work (it never has actually come to think of it; Ford).

Trent.

[mickq]

Sorry guys, as inelloquent as Blonk may be, I think he has a point.

1 The standard TC is NOT foolproof. I have managed to spin the T with it activated, wet road on an advanced driver training day.

2. If wife / girlfriend ect are going to be driving the T can't you just upload the standard maps?

3 This "Let's blame everyone else but me" attitude makes me sick. It's straight from the USA, haven't you heard of buyer beware? If you or wife hit a tree, you or wife should face up to your responsability.

4. In the good Ole days, if Id fitted a crane cam to my skyline and the power came on in a rush at 3500 and I spun off into a tree could I sue crane? Nope. But they never told me the car would spin easier! Tough.

dunno which way a lawsuit would go, but I think it'd be immoral and imature to try and sue.

It's because of people who think that sueing is A-OK that I have to pay ~$400 per year to go hangliding!

Face up to the facts, you modded it.

Your responsable.

Did anyone ask if the TC would still work prior to the edit?

Didn't think so....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In reply...

1:

Any car with traction control can still spin. Its simple physics. It doesnt matter how good your TC and tyres are, if they are aquaplaning or way over their limits of adhesion, you will have zero grip. Ive spun several TC cars 360 degrees at only 15kmh due to road conditions. TC can make efforts to *try* to restore things faster by not making the matter worse and attempting to take steps likely to reinstate grip, but that is all it can do. But there is a BIG difference between TC not working in a tiny subset of circumstances and TC being completely disengaged at all times after a certain event occurs.

2:

Not necessarily. Its not very practical for someone sharing their car often as Im sure many here do. The Edit is supposed to be very driveable and was often marketed as being an improvement on the standard driveability, not just in terms of peak power output. Losing TC is a serious issue, no matter how you look at it, and at a minimum a warning should be issued with all Edits stating that TC may disengage under certain circumstances. Its common sense.

3:

Buyer beware has nothing to do with this scenario. Where a product is marketed and that product has a large impact on the potential danger faced by the user of that product, and where such a danger is not easily foreseeable, then it is a big problem.

As you can see from this forum and thread, many edit users had no idea of this pitfall. It is the removal of an important safety feature of the car. It is not a case of buyer beware. If the Edit had disabled the airbags, would you still consider this to be reasonable and a case of buyer beware? Of course not. TC is no different - a safety feature was removed. Worse still the presence of this feature means people drive differently, and removing it means their usually ok driving may be dangerous as instead of TC kicking in, their car unexpectedly kicks out!

4:

You chose to upgrade power and spinning tyres is a reasonably forseeable outcome. DISABLING TC IS NOT.

It wouldnt matter if power was increased by the edit or not, if the edit removes TC is has shut down a safety feature. The lack of this safety feature can be the main contributing cause of an accident that would otherwise not have occurred if TC had been enabled.

I think you need to face facts: SCT made an error in how their software versions cope with the limits of TC. The result is TC turning off. This is unacceptable, and I bet you anything they would agree. If you see a free fix coming out (or very cheap one) you will know this is true. SCT is a US company, and no doubt well aware of the massive risks posed by litigation where it may be construed their negligence in designing this product placed unknowing customers at unreasonable risk. Killing TC well and truly falls into that area. I have no doubt they will invest the time in fixing this one. Its no minor matter by any means - neither here or in the US.

Winning a lawsuit based on this one would be very easy. Quite simply the customers had the reasonable expectation that TC would be functioning unless told otherwise. At no time was information provided that would lead a person to reasonably conclude that TC may be turned off. You seem to be confusing the issue here - the problem isnt that excess power causes you to lose it - the problem is that TC being unknowingly turned off (regardless of why) is placing the drivers at a very much increased risk. You dont need a hotted up car to lose it with TC turned off.

So, if you own an edit, did you ask if your airbags will still work? Did you ask if your TC would still work? What about ABS and seat belt pre-tensioners?

Just about every feature of the car has input from the ECU, and quite simply it is not reasonable to expect the customer to have to ask detailed technical questions about a product marketed as producing a slight power improvement.

SCT will fix it, or else the first example of this software fault killing somoene will likely cost them and CAPA millions.

[tab]

Although I agree in-part with the sentiments of your posts Mick, traction control is not an ADR requirement like airbags and at least you have a warning light on your dash to tell you that something is not right.

Yes I would be annoyed but I think the point that sixfan is getting at is that you cannot expect to tamper with the most crucial part of the vehicle (I.e. Edit) and assume that all of the factory installed options will be OK. This is where buyer beware does come in to it; for comparisons sake you cannot expect to overclock a CPU and assume that everything else will still work as it was designed.

Even in the litigious society that we live in I doubt that there would be a risk of a successful case against SCT – as you would have to be driving “without due care” in the eyes of the law for this glitch to surface in any case.

Trent.

[ZAP]

Mick,

I completely agree with your statement. The silence from CAPA is defening. It would be nice if ST could give the Edited people an update on the progress of the fix.

Trent, just because TC is not ADR is irrelivant as the car comes with this safety feature and either CAPA should have sorted this out as I am sure it would have shown itself in the testing phase.

"The Edit" was meant to be the ducks guts as it used all the factory items and would not bend signals like piggybacks. At least I know that piggybacks will not break factory safety devices.

I think I will wait until this is sorted as I was going to get an edit until this problem arose.

[Street Tuner]

The fix is being tested now.

If you bought your Flasher from CAPA then return it to them for the upgrade

If you bought it from a dealer they will be able to install the new code

I dont believe there would be a charge for this

Will let you know when the dealers have the latest database with the TC revisions in place.

Edited 14/04/05 10:59 PM by Street Tuner

[DBOSS]

My previuos T with the unichip would spin quite easily with traction control on to me no big deal