Traction Control Dis-engaging

[Cobra]

It occurs because the vehicle generates a P2105 error condition, and does a forced ETC traction control shutdown. It considers that when trying to control the wheelspin that there is too much wheel slip (it considers there is something wrong with the ETC system) and shuts it off. At the moment a fix for this is currently being tested.

.... but who would be responsible if there is an accident caused due to this "error condition" ??

or worse still ... what if someone died ??

That's an alarmest statement.

Keep it in perspective; it's nowhere near as bad as having your car stall in the middle of a roadabout, or rapid overtaking at 130kph and your car going into limp mode, with a semi-trailer coming towards you.

As for stalling, I don't think Ford accept any responsibility.

I definitely do accept that you need TC working in a powerful rwd.

Brian

I just reckon a lot of these issues are taken a bit casually .... will it take a death for companies to extract their digit or atleast take things a bit more seriously ....

I'm running 370rwkw in 1550kg rocket and I value traction control .... I'd be a fool not to

agreed , the stalling thing was a pain too .... so much of the control over a modern car is "power" assisted

I used to hate turning left into a street causes the chances were high that the freaken car would stall .... strong arming a car with sfa brakes and smiling at someone turning out of that street cause you may end up exchanging phone numbers and insurance companies .... not acceptable ....

[C.S.I]

It occurs because the vehicle generates a P2105 error condition, and does a forced ETC traction control shutdown. It considers that when trying to control the wheelspin that there is too much wheel slip (it considers there is something wrong with the ETC system) and shuts it off. At the moment a fix for this is currently being tested.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Street tuner, So why, with the Edit custom tuned as I have, do the wheels spin in the first place, if the traction control is ON. Mine now can spin at around 50Km/h in the dry with good stock rubber when on WOT, and the traction control disables itself.

Why cant the PCM Control the wheelspin with Edit, too much torque, no torque tages, other

[Ford_Power]

gooza Posted Apr 2 2005, 09:05 PM

 

QUOTE(Street Tuner @ Apr 1 2005, 08:18 AM)

It occurs because the vehicle generates a P2105 error condition, and does a forced ETC traction control shutdown. It considers that when trying to control the wheelspin that there is too much wheel slip (it considers there is something wrong with the ETC system) and shuts it off. At the moment a fix for this is currently being tested.

Street tuner, So why, with the Edit custom tuned as I have, do the wheels spin in the first place, if the traction control is ON. Mine now can spin at around 50Km/h in the dry with good stock rubber when on WOT, and the traction control disables itself.

Why cant the PCM Control the wheelspin with Edit, too much torque, no torque tages, other

Hi Gooza,

Obviously for the traction control system to actively control wheel spin there has to be a speed differential threshold of "X" between the front and rear wheels. (Ie. the rear wheels needs to be spinning). This is why you are able to break traction at 50kmh. There is no way for the ETC system to know how much grip is available until the wheel spins - and only then can it attempt to stop the wheels spinning.

Another thing to note is that once the vehicle is doing more than 40kmh, the ETC system relies on PCM management to reduce engine power output only to control the wheel spin. When the vehicle is doing less than 40kmh it can apply the rear brakes as well as reduce engine power output in order to reduce the speed of the wheels. The brake application component of the ETC system is disabled above 40kmh so as to not overheat the brakes.

Obviously the ETC system has been calibrated around the standard PCM maps. The ETC calibration obviously assumes that all the torque reduction strategies are currently employed - as they are in a stock vehicle. With the new and more powerful maps programmed into the PCM (ie. Edit, and torque reduction disabled) , the existing ETC calibration is no longer sufficient/valid for this amount of power. .

Take this example. Vehicle is doing 60kmh, you plant the accelerator it and the rear wheels break traction. The ETC will look up many variables such as the vehicle speed, TPS, rate of wheel spin, etc and then perhaps say "reduce timing by 10 degrees" in order to regain traction. Now with your higher performance map and torque reduction strategies disabled, taking 10 degrees of timing out may still not reduce the engine power enough in order to control the wheelspin. So what does the ETC system do? It thinks "OK, this is not working, I am unable to control the wheel spin" and as a failsafe feature, it shuts down the ETC system, still leaving the vehicle in a predictable, drivable state, and informs the driver that it is no longer active by illuminating the ETC light.

Ross

[xrdreaming]

The best answer I have seen on this topic, well said

[C.S.I]

gooza Posted Apr 2 2005, 09:05 PM

 

QUOTE(Street Tuner @ Apr 1 2005, 08:18 AM)

It occurs because the vehicle generates a P2105 error condition, and does a forced ETC traction control shutdown. It considers that when trying to control the wheelspin that there is too much wheel slip (it considers there is something wrong with the ETC system) and shuts it off. At the moment a fix for this is currently being tested.

Street tuner, So why, with the Edit custom tuned as I have, do the wheels spin in the first place, if the traction control is ON. Mine now can spin at around 50Km/h in the dry with good stock rubber when on WOT, and the traction control disables itself.

Why cant the PCM Control the wheelspin with Edit, too much torque, no torque tages, other

Hi Gooza,

Obviously for the traction control system to actively control wheel spin there has to be a speed differential threshold of "X" between the front and rear wheels. (Ie. the rear wheels needs to be spinning). This is why you are able to break traction at 50kmh. There is no way for the ETC system to know how much grip is available until the wheel spins - and only then can it attempt to stop the wheels spinning.

Another thing to note is that once the vehicle is doing more than 40kmh, the ETC system relies on PCM management to reduce engine power output only to control the wheel spin. When the vehicle is doing less than 40kmh it can apply the rear brakes as well as reduce engine power output in order to reduce the speed of the wheels. The brake application component of the ETC system is disabled above 40kmh so as to not overheat the brakes.

Obviously the ETC system has been calibrated around the standard PCM maps. The ETC calibration obviously assumes that all the torque reduction strategies are currently employed - as they are in a stock vehicle. With the new and more powerful maps programmed into the PCM (ie. Edit, and torque reduction disabled) , the existing ETC calibration is no longer sufficient/valid for this amount of power. .

Take this example. Vehicle is doing 60kmh, you plant the accelerator it and the rear wheels break traction. The ETC will look up many variables such as the vehicle speed, TPS, rate of wheel spin, etc and then perhaps say "reduce timing by 10 degrees" in order to regain traction. Now with your higher performance map and torque reduction strategies disabled, taking 10 degrees of timing out may still not reduce the engine power enough in order to control the wheelspin. So what does the ETC system do? It thinks "OK, this is not working, I am unable to control the wheel spin" and as a failsafe feature, it shuts down the ETC system, still leaving the vehicle in a predictable, drivable state, and informs the driver that it is no longer active by illuminating the ETC light.

Ross

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FordPower, thanks for the informative answer. Does this mean that the ETC is NOT part of the ECU, or has the Edit not had these parameters modified to suit.

Thanks, Alan

[dave-]

FordPower, thanks for the informative answer.  Does this mean that the ETC is NOT part of the ECU, or has the Edit not had these parameters modified to suit.

Thanks,  Alan

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like the tuners need to learn how to alter the ETC function or wait for CAPA/etc to inform them how it works! Would have been a good scenario to test while they were doing their development I'd have thought?

[Flukey]

So is TC virtually disabled with edit?

[C.S.I]

So is TC virtually disabled with edit?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Flukeylike, it still works like normal at low speeds, like wheelspin @ 5km/h in the dirt, traction control will kick in and control wheelspin ala stock.

But when the car lets go at higher speeds, it can get the sh*ts and turn itself off.

Needs a key off and on to reset.

Given we have had no rain in the last few days (or years), cant comment about when the roads are wet, but suggest may be in for a hairy ride. Wife will NOT be happy if it steps out on her And I'll be less happy if it then hits a pole or worse

[Flukey]

So is TC virtually disabled with edit?

Wife will NOT be happy if it steps out on her And I'll be less happy if it then hits a pole or worse

that's what will worry me. If you know about it, you will respect it. If you didn't

(still getting edit though, Mrs Flukey wont be abe to drive it when its wet)

[C.S.I]

Having said this, you do have to be really pegging it to get what I described on a dry road. Wet Road, Hmmmmmmmm.