Dont Get Ripped

[aniken]

Typhoon, I don't think I have read such a load of muck in all my life. I won't go into detail as to my history in the motor industry as anyone reading this would already be close to gagging.

It sounds to me like you are a little disgruntled about a previous employer or experience in a dealership I am assuming was in Adelaide.

If anyone follows this guide to buying a car they are doomed from the beginning.

Storys like this do nothing for the reputation of dealers and salespeople in the current climate, if you posted this to vent some build up anger then that's fine.

I would like to send out a warning to all reading this turn the page !!

So.............. what is incorrect, what is correct, and what positive information could you possibly provide to new car buyers??

Thnx..

Yep, how about it cbd? I see you are a sponsor of this site (a certain dealer in Sydney perhaps...), so why not give us humble members a bit of a hand.

[Buf-Phoon]

Thanks for the post/ insights Typhoon At the end of the day , buyer be aware, do your research know your parameters for negotiation and your walk away position Remember they are selling to you , you have the power and control as to what you do with your hard earned, dont be bullied or intimidated they can go F8ck themselves if the deal is not to you satisfaction.End of story.

Nice to go and have a play on the otherside of the fence sometimes, make em work :spoton:hehehehe

[Redhawk]

Typhoon, I don't think I have read such a load of muck in all my life. I won't go into detail as to my history in the motor industry as anyone reading this would already be close to gagging.

It sounds to me like you are a little disgruntled about a previous employer or experience in a dealership I am assuming was in Adelaide.

If anyone follows this guide to buying a car they are doomed from the beginning.

Storys like this do nothing for the reputation of dealers and salespeople in the current climate, if you posted this to vent some build up anger then that's fine.

I would like to send out a warning to all reading this turn the page !!

So.............. what is incorrect, what is correct, and what positive information could you possibly provide to new car buyers??

Thnx..

Yep, how about it cbd? I see you are a sponsor of this site (a certain dealer in Sydney perhaps...), so why not give us humble members a bit of a hand.

Your pissing in the wind there Darth Jr, obviously Typhoon has struck a nerve with this guy.

What you have posted Typhoon is great, for a young person who is new to the 'jungle' of car buying your info is invaluable.

On a positive note my dealer (with me at least) has stuck to quite a bit of what you have posted and still got the sale (so there cbd!!), especially with the trade-in, he actually knocked $1000 off of the 'fox' when I sold the 'Silverhawk' privately.

EID is in the retail game and end of month and end of financial year are definately the best times to buy, believe me.

I love this forum!!

[Space Ace]

I know exactly what typhoon is going on about, as I just bought my T on Monday after a real sh*tty experience last week.

I was negotiating with a dealer from the Eastern suburbs - who I will not mention just in case I get the STRAPP... anyway, the were quoting me a drive-away price for the whole week, which was the best by far out of all the dealerships in greater Melbourne area - trust me I called them all - and last Friday I called them to let them know I was going in on Sat morning to sign up. Had a great big smile on my face for about 10mins and then the phone rings - ah sorry mate, we forgot the GS(farken)T - WTF. You could imagine my anger and if I could have reach through the phone to strangle him I would have. After I had cooled down about half an hour later, I called their manager and gave 'em an absolute pasting.

They called me on Sat morning to apologise and all the other crap. Not interested. They even offered to reduce the ‘new’ price by a couple of hundred dollars (even though the upped it by close to $4K the day before). Not interested.

This is where the story gets better.

Another dealer called me up on Sat as well - very lovely girl. I told her what happened and she reckoned they should have given me the car at the original quoted price. Anyway, she asked who the dealer was and I told her. "Great" she goes, "we use the same stock controller, let me see whether I can get my hands on the exact car and I’ll call you on Monday" (this is because it was the only Black T with premium sound).

She calls me on Monday - "Guess what? I've got it". "Great, now if you knock off a couple of hundred more off the other dealers “new” price and I'll sign up with you today out of principle” I go. The strappy dealer finds out a couple of days later that the car is gone and calls me “have you found the car?” he asks. “Yes I have, its your one, only cheaper through another dealer” I reply and hang up the phone.

And the rest my friends is history.

[3rdTurbo]

Typhoon - great post, and thankyou for sharing your experiences/observations with us.

Strange reply cbd. Rumour has it, you studied marketing/PR with Street Tuna!!! The writing style appears to be very similar. I will stand corrected though. The only key difference I have noted is that cbd is actually a sponsor of the site.

Any knucklehead can figure out that Typhoon is from Adelaide and is in his mid 20's by taking a quick glance at his profile.

cbd - Put forward you credentials and explain yourself.

[Turbo6man]

Typhoon, I don't think I have read such a load of muck in all my life. I won't go into detail as to my history in the motor industry as anyone reading this would already be close to gagging.

It sounds to me like you are a little disgruntled about a previous employer or experience in a dealership I am assuming was in Adelaide.

If anyone follows this guide to buying a car they are doomed from the beginning.

Storys like this do nothing for the reputation of dealers and salespeople in the current climate, if you posted this to vent some build up anger then that's fine.

I would like to send out a warning to all reading this turn the page !!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting that you have been a member since 2002 but have waited until now for your first post. I appreciate that you are a site sponsor and I understand how much we all rely on the financial backing of people such as yourself so we can come on here and enjoy this great forum and reap invaluable information from it.

However your post raises more questions than it answers and you are actually doing yourself a dis-service by not going into a more detailed and expansive explanation of your point of view.

Typhoon could have, and probably has, said all the things contained in his post on other occasions and at other venues. For example at a backyard BBQ with friends and neighbours. If he were to do this, in your absence you'd know nothing of it and would be unable to respond with your side of the story as it were.

By posting in a public forum he has opened an avenue for anyone who so wishes to stand up and make comment. You have chosen to do so but have really not put any worthwhile argument forward that would give weight to your claim that is is all a load of muck.

The members of the forum are not stupid. Oh, allright there may be an exception or two! If two sides of an argument are presented they will make up their own minds as to who and what to believe. You aren't helping your cause at all. The post you have made comes over as kind of arrogant in a way, and does nothing to sway readers from the belief that Typhoon's post, as it is unchallenged, must be correct.

If you have any suggestions to offer us for when we are setting out on our next new car purchase we would all be so happy to hear it, as you obviously have many year's background in the industry.

[Redhawk]

The members of the forum are not stupid. Oh, allright there may be an exception or two!

Oi!............

[Flukey]

They called me on Sat morning to apologise and all the other crap. Not interested. They even offered to reduce the ‘new’ price by a couple of hundred dollars (even though the upped it by close to $4K the day before). Not interested.

“Yes I have, its your one, only cheaper through another dealer” I reply and hang up the phone.

And the rest my friends is history.

Good job Space Ace, it sounds like a win for you. I know the dealer well, have bought several new Fords, and not one from them ever. Toooooo dear.

Enjoy the T.

[tab]

and then the phone rings - ah sorry mate, we forgot the GS(farken)T - WTF.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That’s interesting, one of the fundamentals of the “New Tax System” (yes, that’s still what it is legislated as) is that unless stated otherwise, all quoted/advertised prices must include GST.

I can understand if you think this issue is dead and buried as ultimately you have won in the end, but I wouldn’t hesitate in dobbing the pricks in – at least to save some other poor bas*ard suffering the same grief.

If you have any suggestions to offer us for when we are setting out on our next new car purchase we would all be so happy to hear it, as you obviously have many year's background in the industry.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jeff, I think it would be something along the lines of “bend over and take what is given to you boy, just like every good little ill-advised customer should”

Trent.

[RATT]

As an current (and upto date) employee of the industry I feel obliged to respond.

Simple fact:

Car yards are out to make as much money as they possibly can out of every sale, with total disregard for the customer.

They are a business and businesses survive by making profit if you weren't aware.

These days it's all about repeat business, therefore customers MUST be looked after.

Eg:

 18.95% finance

 $3800 wheel and tyre packages worth $1500

 Rd Bike traded for $4500 and wholesaled for $9500, less than 10 minutes after traded.

18.95%??? you cannot be serious.

If the wheel/tyre package trade price is $1500, no one is stupid enough to pay $3800.

If cars are wholesaled it is usually at a small profit even a small loss. Wholesalers are called that for a reason

Sales Staff

You can not intimidate sales people and sales managers, and you can not insult them. They are professional people who do this for a living and are always in control of what is happening. You must be assertive and take charge in any sales or negotiating environment. Be confident with what you know and what you want. This may be hard, for you could only buy, sell or negotiate on a car 3 to 4 times in your life whereas a sales person or manager will do it up to 100 times a month.

These people you speak of are human beings that happen to sell cars as a job. You do IT, if someone dicked you around making things difficult how would you feel?

Approaching Dealerships and Sales People

 If you have arranged to be represented by a negotiator, it is vital that whilst looking for cars, you do not mention to dealerships that you have a negotiator. If a dealership knows you have a representative, the company will pressure you and attempt to sell you a car there and then.

The days of pressuring for a sale is numbered. I have been to official sales training courses where we were taught it's best to leave people to make a decision at their own pace, otherwise they will go elsewhere.

 When shopping for cars be polite and assertive to sales staff. Do not do anything you do not feel or want to do. They are trying to put you through a sales system.

You started off well, nothing wrong with being assertive. But the sales system is a guide only. It basically is : Approach, Qualify, Appraisal, Demonstration, Sale.

A customer must first be qualified to determine what they actually want, if they're trading in a vehicle etc. It is then up to the salesperson to build a relationship with the customer hopefully resulting in two happy parties.

 Take your time looking at your desired vehicle, politely telling sales people to stand aside and away.

 If you want to test drive a vehicle do so at your own leisure, without sales staff. Do not let the sales staff come with you, regardless of what they say.

 After test driving a vehicle, if you like the car enough to consider buying, take the sales person’s card and tell them you will be in touch. Do not give sales people your telephone number, they will only harass you.

 If the vehicle is not what you are looking for, simply thank sales staff and tell them immediately that you are not interested. Do not feel bad about walking away. Dealerships want you to feel guilty.

So you're saying that you can just show up, tell the salesperson to stand aside, take the keys to a car (and not actually be told what all the features and benefits are), drive it and then ask for a card?? You are deluded. How about I take your car for a spin without you when you want to sell it. You are then the type that won't buy the car you just test drove because it has been thrashed.

Best Times to Buy

There are times throughout the year which would give the consumer a slight advantage when it comes to buying. The most frequent, or “best time”, falls at the end of each month when dealerships are needing to meet sales targets. If dealerships are behind on sales targets they will simply write off a deal in order to get a sale and meet targets.

The months of May, June, July and August prove to be tough times for dealerships. During these four months dealerships can be desperate to sell cars and again can be willing to write off deals in order to make sales targets.

Christmas time is a great time to buy a new car. This is due to the fact that dealerships are signing off so many deals during the Christmas period that they can concentrate solely on turnover – more so than profit margins.

Once again you start of well. The end of financial year is actually a good time as many businesses need to spend some money to minimise their tax bill. So what does a plumber do when he realises he needs to spend $40k? He'll go and buy a new ute.

Trade In Vehicles

Sales staff and management generally know what your trade in vehicle is worth immediately. They will say they need to drive the car in order to get a better indication of what it is worth. However, they do this in order to keep you in your comfort zone while attempting to extract personal information from you.

How is this the case? Every used car is different. Km, service history, accident history, amount of rego left, and a close inspection means that even two of the same cars may be worth a different amount.

We don't test drive customers cars either.

Dealerships generally do not want your trade in vehicle, especially if it is a car that they can not make money on. The less your car is worth, the more accurate price the dealership will give you. The more valuable the trade in vehicle is to the dealership, the more they will try to devalue it in order to make a profit.

Dealerships need used cars to sell, a salesperson may find it more difficult to sell a car if there is a trade, but the dealership wants good quality used cars.

Note: Use loads, reco and margin to inform customers about how dealerships come to the trade in prices.

That depends on who you deal with. A true valuation reflects what the car can be resold for

Dealing With Contracts

Word all conditions on your contract exactly how you would like it set out. Have what you want, your conditions and requests written clearly on the contract.

Things which you can write on a contract:

 Purchase subject to satisfactory finance approval

 Purchase subject to satisfactory RAA inspection

 Purchase subject to all requested repairs and work to meet my satisfaction

Only sign contracts when you are completely satisfied with what is written and all the figures add accordingly.

Blimey, that is the first deadset good advice you have given

After Market Products

Never buy after market products from dealerships under any circumstances.

After market product include:

 Window tinting

 CD players and stackers

 Car alarms

 Tow bars

 Paint protection

 Wheels

 Protective coverings

All after market products are heavily marked up. For example 100% to 200% mark up on wheels and tyres is common, and paint protection may be marked up to 1000%. Paint and fabric protection is an absolute waste of money. It simply does not do what it is advertised to do.

You are treading on thin ice mate. Factory towbars, alarms, wheels, CD stackers are covered under warranty. But suite yourself.

100-200% mark up on wheels and tyres!!?? You are kidding.

1000% on paint and fabric protection?? So you are saying that paint/ fabric protection costs the dealer $1.50? So the product itself plus the people that apply the products cost $1.50. There goes any credibility your post had.

Finance

Finance representatives (business managers) that typically work for dealerships receive enormous financial kick backs for signing up business on new or used vehicles. It is not uncommon for the man or woman sitting in the financial department to be on an annual salary between $50,000 to $150,000. These people are out to make as much money out of any one person at a time, with no regard for your financial well being.

Never ever take yard finance. Try to arrange finance before you sign for a vehicle. Shop around at the major banks. A good rate is between 8.95% to 10.95%.

Of course look after your best interests, but try and get 8.95% or less as most dealers would give a good customer, elsewhere. It's possible but not too common.So it's wrong for people to try and earn a good living?

In House Warranty

Free in house warranty and roadside assistance can be generally well presented to give a client false security as to just how thorough a vehicle’s warranty is.

All in house warranties and roadside assistance require the buyer to enter into service agreements, which are generally over priced for the amount of servicing undertaken. For example, it may cost $180 for an oil change with an oil filter and a check and inspection report.

In house warranties (2-3 years) will generally only cover components from $800 – $1400. For example, it may cost approximately $2500 to repair an Automatic Transmission. The remaining cost (over $1400) which is not covered by the warranty is therefore paid by you.

Vehicle Servicing Agreements

A service agreement is when the customer needs to have their car serviced by the dealer at an inflated price in order to keep their warranty valid. However the price you pay for accumulated services generally does not justify minor warranty claims your vehicle may have. Remember that major claims that exceed the covered amount will come straight out of your pocket.

Once again your argument here is flawed. This warranty you speak of is generally is part of the deal and factored in to the cost of the car. This cost is approximately $400-$600. So go ahead and tell the dealer that you don't want it and save $600, but then be prepared to pay the full $2500 to have your transmission fixed.

Road Side Assistance

Road side assistance can be included in your free extended warranty which you lose if you break your service agreement. The dealership will lead you to believe that the roadside assistance is as good as the RAA roadside assistance program. However it is far from comprehensive and I recommend that the conditions are read and fully understood for both the roadside and free dealer warranties.

Do your research and ask questions if a dealer doesn't disclose it upfront.

Purchase Warranty

A purchase warranty is an insurance policy against your car breaking down. Prices range between $400 – $1500 and all will only cover a certain amount. For example it may cost $750 for the engine, $1500 for the transmission and $500 for differentials.

Purchase warranties require a strict service history of stamped books and receipts before any warrantable work will be carried out. In some cases excess may be required, depending on the policy.

If you purchase a warranty, like the 3yr used car warranty the items covered are limited. You have already been through this.

An extended new car warranty is just that, an extention of your new car warranty which covers everything other than things like brake pads, clutches etc.

New Car Warranty

Think about this very carefully: If the car you are looking at purchasing has a considerable amount of new car warranty left on it (eg 2 years), and your free extended dealer warranty is 3 years, why enter into a service agreement for 5 years?

You are entitled to the free 2-year factory warranty. However the dealer will want you to service your vehicle with them throughout the factory warranty. The likelihood of a minor, let alone a major problem within the first 5 years of a cars life is fairly remote to warrant an $1800 5-year warranty bill. If you are unlucky to experience a problem with your vehicle out of the new car warranty, the likelihood of it exceeding $1800 to repair is rare.

If you buy a car with some new car warranty left wouldn't you service it at a reputable dealer anyway? It will avoid issues later if something goes wrong. If you service your car at your local ultra tune or your favourite mechanic and something major goes wrong, will ultra tune or your mechanic repair a fault under their warranty?

New car warranty covers everything apart from squeaks and rattles and specific oil leaks. However, most dealerships will fix these problems in order to keep you happy if the car is only 3-8 months old.

Now that my friend is complete bullsh*t and you know it. Read your new car warranty guide and speak to your dealer. Squeaks, rattles and leaks will continue to be repaired under warranty till the 3yrs/100000km is up.

Unless these rattles/ squeaks are an obvious result of carelessness/abuse they will only then not be covered. It's all common sense.

Edited 23/01/05 01:52 PM by RATT