Edit Review

[mickq]

It was and is my main concern with the edit program.  If Ford finds out you've hacked into their software made changes and than tried to change it back to make a claim, I for one don't think they will take a far dimmer veiw of it than, if you have a piggyback system. 

IMOP

macka

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree. They wont care if you have hacked their software any more than if you have attached a piggy back. From their perspective both equal voided warrantee's on certain components. Both involve an attempt to bypass their controls by stealth. (The piggyback is by stealth as they disconnect them before servicing).

The only claim they may have is against SCT for apparently reverse engineering the Ford ECU software (assuming this is how they did it...they may have just "listened" to all data coming and going from the ECU under all conditions and modded their own software to suit). If they did that, althought its probably legal in Australia it would be illegal in the US. (Interesting legal sh1t fight, that one as some of the work was done here...but maybe not all!)

[mickq]

PS,

When you flash your eeprom effectively its just a new program but instead of being like a file on your hard disk it is a file written onto a chip - that's not expected to change. Flashing an EPROM *DOES* wipe everything on it.

But there is a BUT!

If, as some have stated, the trip computer stays the same after a CAPA flash, then it is very likely the registers remain untouched and all the data stays there even after flashing. So all the error codes etc and other stuff Ford gathers will remain there despite flashing. The good thing is the error registers are likely quite limited in size...they dont store everything that happens forever! They may be set to overwrite when a "larger" event occurs (for example a larger overboost) or else when an event occurs that is much newer in time than the old one. (So it only stores the newest problem). Things like average revs are likely to be a rolling average and it woudlnt take long to change that average if you wanted to.

So that brings us to the next question: what type of memory do they use for the registers? They could use volatile memory, which means as soon as it loses power, it loses the data. That means a battery disconnect over a period of time should wipe them. But they could use a rechargeable bbattery backup to keep the data there for XX many hours. Or they could use semi-volatile memory that retains the data for a while, but it degrades as the memory loses charge. Or they could use flash memory that will store the data for ages with no power at all. (That would be the worst case for CAPA users!)

But there is hope....the registers are written by the ECU, which means SCTcould easily produce some code for the ECU that wipes the registers when you reflash the standard Ford software. ie there would be a small routine in the 8 and 10psi maps that blanks out the registers and it is "called" by the CAPA box a second before the CAPA box tells the ECU that its about to reflash it. In that case all registers woudl be blanked *except* for registers SCT decides not to blank...like trip meters and harmless things like that.

If SCT are seriously confident that it cant be detected, I bet that is exactly what they are doing.

One note - even if they are doing that its definitely important to give your car a good drive including highway speeds before servicing. You need to have a nice "normal" set of data in the registers before its serviced - which includes across the rev range and highway speeds. All normal things Ford would expect to see in a normal car.

Edited 13/01/05 02:08 PM by mickq

[macka'sxr6t]

It was and is my main concern with the edit program.  If Ford finds out you've hacked into their software made changes and than tried to change it back to make a claim, I for one don't think they will take a far dimmer veiw of it than, if you have a piggyback system. 

IMOP

macka

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I disagree. They wont care if you have hacked their software any more than if you have attached a piggy back. From their perspective both equal voided warrantee's on certain components. Both involve an attempt to bypass their controls by stealth. (The piggyback is by stealth as they disconnect them before servicing).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Piggybacks are not stealth, they are quite easy to find if you know where to look. You'll also find that if you disconnect the piggybacks the cars will not even start.

The point I was trying to make is that the guy's who have a piggyback system know that if you play and things go wrong you'll also pay, so the warranty issues don't come into play. If your mod is found to has caused the failure you cop it on the chin and pay up.

On the other hand if the people who go down the edit path know or think that their mod is undetectable there will be a small element of people out there that will try to pull the shifty to get out of coughing up. That's human nature.

This is why I think that Ford will take a dimmer veiw if they find you are using the Edit software.

It would be good to hear from some LS1 edit guy's to see if they have had any problems with waranty.

OOOPS I forgot!!!. With the amount of piston slap and oil usage with their engines, the Expensive Daewoo Dealers probably don't bother checking anything with the ECU. :lol: :lol: just thrash the out of it when it starts using oil, take it in and demand a newy.

I think that you are right about driving your car for 100 km or so in normal conditions, just to cover your tracks a little so to speak.

When I get time I will talk to the Ford Engineer who works soley on the engine management systems to find out what the PCM actually records and logs and how it all works.

macka

[Guest fredwho]

Nizpro in Melbourne has just taken on CAPA SCT tuning and as of next week (Jan 17) will be offering tuning and supply of the product.

Given Nizpro's extensive tuning experience with MoTeC and several others, I'd reckon the results will be extremely good.

[aaronmihe]

What I know about "Undetectable" stuff is not in Ford but in a Euro brand that does have some great smarts in their delaership software package.

The dealership pluggs in their laptop as part of the service routine. An entire dump of the ECU is taken, then a byte-byte compare is done against what the MAP shoudl be. When it doesn't match the suspect code is stored in the Laptop (which uplinks to HQ via the 'net) and a 'clean version re-flashed.

If there's a new update available the tech gets the option to flash it, complete with advices on what it shoudl fix.

The system is probably marginally more complex than the Ford WDS system, but not by much.

To say things are undetectable is wrong, if you go into a dealership with this euro brand and ain't running the correct map you're stuffed. If you reflashed you may get away with it, but I'd guess there's a history of "days since last flash" or somethign there as well.

As I say the Ford system may not be that smart now, but I reckon with the Flash tuners becoming more prevalent in the world (not just Ford, but for Holden/GM and the Euros heck even Hyundai with their Bosch based systems) most makers will be doing somethign to track it.

I think the best option is to be upfront about your mods with a dealership that isn't goignt o give you sh!t about them, and be prepared to pay the price if you party too hard.

A.

[ms700]

I think the best option is to be upfront about your mods with a dealership that isn't goignt o give you sh!t about them, and be prepared to pay the price if you party too hard. 

A.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exackery.

If you play, BE PREPARED TO PAY.

Simple.

[cutsnake]

Hi All,

I am considering an edit but have found a snag re the ability for Ford to detect it being used....... Appologies if this is not quite correct....

Reading some online info on the SCT Xcalibrator (the same unit), the information tends to suggest that the F memory storage gets loaded with the factory ECU once and is kept in memory the very first time the flasher is connected to a vehicle (where it also records the VIN etc...).

The objective is to load your 8 or 10 PSI map and then return it to factory when due for a service.....But, if at a later stage Ford service upgrades your software in your ECU they will have a record of this and would be quite surprised if at the next service (or a warranty claim) they find the original ECU software loaded as originally stored in the F memory (when you first connected).......In other words the F memory slot will only hold one image which is the factory software when you first connect the flasher.

The only way around this would be to insist Ford never upgrade your ECU after you purchase the flasher (but they may get suspicous).

If I am right, I recommend everyone get the very latest factory ECU software loaded before you plug-in your flasher...

Please correct me if I am wrong..

Cutsnake

[jetute]

Hi All,

I am considering an edit but have found a snag re the ability for Ford to detect it being used....... Appologies if this is not quite correct....

Reading some online info on the SCT Xcalibrator (the same unit), the information tends to suggest that the F memory storage gets loaded with the factory ECU once and is kept in memory the very first time the flasher is connected to a vehicle (where it also records the VIN etc...).

The objective is to load your 8 or 10 PSI map and then return it to factory when due for a service.....But, if at a later stage Ford service upgrades your software in your ECU they will have a record of this and would be quite surprised if at the next service (or a warranty claim) they find the original ECU software loaded as originally stored in the F memory (when you first connected).......In other words the F memory slot will only hold one image which is the factory software when you first connect the flasher.

The only way around this would be to insist Ford never upgrade your ECU after you purchase the flasher (but they may get suspicous).

If I am right, I recommend everyone get the very latest factory ECU software loaded before you plug-in your flasher...

Please correct me if I am wrong..

Cutsnake

I cant see how this could be correct.... when you load the factory map back into your car you load the whole setting in, and you can then use the flasher on a different car if you wanted to... ie, that would mean nothing is kept in the slot once loaded back into the car

Remember that you can use the flasher on up to 5 different cars, obviously not at the same time

[cutsnake]

Hi All,

I am considering an edit but have found a snag re the ability for Ford to detect it being used....... Appologies if this is not quite correct....

Reading some online info on the SCT Xcalibrator (the same unit), the information tends to suggest that the F memory storage gets loaded with the factory ECU once and is kept in memory the very first time the flasher is connected to a vehicle (where it also records the VIN etc...).

The objective is to load your 8 or 10 PSI map and then return it to factory when due for a service.....But, if at a later stage Ford service upgrades your software in your ECU they will have a record of this and would be quite surprised if at the next service (or a warranty claim) they find the original ECU software loaded as originally stored in the F memory (when you first connected).......In other words the F memory slot will only hold one image which is the factory software when you first connect the flasher.

The only way around this would be to insist Ford never upgrade your ECU after you purchase the flasher (but they may get suspicous).

If I am right, I recommend everyone get the very latest factory ECU software loaded before you plug-in your flasher...

Please correct me if I am wrong..

Cutsnake

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I cant see how this could be correct.... when you load the factory map back into your car you load the whole setting in, and you can then use the flasher on a different car if you wanted to... ie, that would mean nothing is kept in the slot once loaded back into the car

Remember that you can use the flasher on up to 5 different cars, obviously not at the same time

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can only use the flasher on different cars once the unit has been reset by CAPA software (up to 5 times). After this it needs to be sent to the USA for resetting. This is according to CAPA's web site.

I am still convinced that F memory slot get loaded once (unless CAPA reset it with their software)

Anoyne elso have some thoughts???

[RAPHOON]

Hi All,

I am considering an edit but have found a snag re the ability for Ford to detect it being used....... Appologies if this is not quite correct....

Reading some online info on the SCT Xcalibrator (the same unit), the information tends to suggest that the F memory storage gets loaded with the factory ECU once and is kept in memory the very first time the flasher is connected to a vehicle (where it also records the VIN etc...).

The objective is to load your 8 or 10 PSI map and then return it to factory when due for a service.....But, if at a later stage Ford service upgrades your software in your ECU they will have a record of this and would be quite surprised if at the next service (or a warranty claim) they find the original ECU software loaded as originally stored in the F memory (when you first connected).......In other words the F memory slot will only hold one image which is the factory software when you first connect the flasher.

The only way around this would be to insist Ford never upgrade your ECU after you purchase the flasher (but they may get suspicous).

If I am right, I recommend everyone get the very latest factory ECU software loaded before you plug-in your flasher...

Please correct me if I am wrong..

Cutsnake

I cant see how this could be correct.... when you load the factory map back into your car you load the whole setting in, and you can then use the flasher on a different car if you wanted to... ie, that would mean nothing is kept in the slot once loaded back into the car

Remember that you can use the flasher on up to 5 different cars, obviously not at the same time

You can only use the flasher on different cars once the unit has been reset by CAPA software (up to 5 times). After this it needs to be sent to the USA for resetting. This is according to CAPA's web site.

I am still convinced that F memory slot get loaded once (unless CAPA reset it with their software)

Anoyne elso have some thoughts???

Cutsnake,

You may be forgetting the Quicktune software option. This allows you to up/download different tunes between a PC and the flacher. I don't theink it has been released in OZ yet. In the US, it appears that the software is supplied FOC with the flasher.