Limit The Speed Of The Xr6 Turbo ?

[toca_rop]

In my original post I stated that of all the mva's I had attented none of them were caused primarily by speed and I still stand by this, I also do not say that speed is irrelevent or is not a factor in an accident because I know that it is.To compare a race situation with real world driving is crap and heres why

1 a racing driver is a professional its what they do for a living

2 races are held in a controlled environment with gravel traps and all drivers are professionals they are all going in the same direction and drive purpose built race cars

3 when a race driver runs off the road its usually because there driving on the limit and sometimes excede the limit or have made a mistake in an attempt to win the race which is what there paid to do

Average joe citizen's job when driving on the road is to go from point A to point Bin a safe and expediant manner whilst compling with the road rules

The article I mentioned was in december 03 edition of motor and was not about what to do when pulled over for speeding as someone seems to think it was about causes of mva's.The report was done by the vice president of the National Motorists Association of Aust. ,with official information obtained from the SA government over a period of 8 years (1995-2002 inclusive) this information clearly shows that "speed" was the primary apparent error in less than 1% of all road crashes ,inattention accounted for 41.88% ,failure to give way 12.72% and reversing without due care 11.1%.This is official government information.

Ive made my point and backed it up with facts case closed.

[Velvet Glove]

'National Motorists Association' ??? Never heard of them. If they are anything they are a group with interests that extend nothing beyond motorists so called 'rights'. They have manipulated stats from one state over a period and try to publish that as some sort of authority. I have never heard such abject nonsense. Lies, damn lies and statistics.

You have proven nothing with your statement. I will base my assessment on something more than reading a motoring rag. I'd suggest you ask the investigating Police at your accidents as to what caused them rather than what the punter says when extricated from the vehicle. Trust me, people do lie at prangs. Its never their fault, they were never speeding, they only ever just had 'one' drink, they have 'no idea' what caused them to leave the road

I will base my assessments on something a little more substantial than what someone said in a glossy magazine. Without trying to sound 'holier than thou' I will base my assessments on 15 years of Policing of which 2 years were spent in Traffic, 2 years in plain clothes, and every second of the rest in uniform policing. I will base it on attending at and investigating 000s of prangs and working with full time professional traffic accident reconstructors on a number of fatals.

You have made your points, but have backed them up with an article that's about as authoritative as something written in the Daily Telegraph. It is their version of official Govt stats and I'm sure, if I actually cared that much, that I could find you a dozen reports that state the contrary

I dont need to read a magazine to tell me what I see on a daily basis. The test of how factual modern day journalism is to watch a show like 60 Minutes when they are talking about something that you experienced, or know a lot about. that's when you can sort out the wheat from the chaff.

But then again what would I know. Its only my job

[toca_rop]

never heard of national motorists association did you bother to look took me 10 seconds to find them and as far as manipulating stats,go have a look at the sa government website where it is clearly shown as to the causes of accidents.This is official government information that is gathered from the police department so its not bullsh*t so you better go get some facts and not print your opinion , but your response is just what I thought it would be full of crap

[XR6_ED]

This is going around in circles

time to quit

[tab]

Speed kills. Simple and true. No one ever died in a car that wasn't moving. Unless he was parked under a building collapse or something. So given the indisputable fact that speed is a contributing factor in virtually every motor vehicle fatality what do we do? Simple, if you REALLY care about saving lives and make THAT your priority. You limit vehicles to a maximum speed such that if a collision occurred between two said vehicle approaching each other, ie the worst case scenario, then the occupants will survive. Having regard to the present safety systems employed in modern cars this speed would be less than 40kph. Any politician wishing to stand for election on a platform of saving lives on the road must advocate this. Anything less is a waste of breath and only an excuse to increase taxes on road uses by PRETENDING to care about saving lives. I've said it before and here it is again: the governments have a vested interest in people dying on our roads. It allows the speed kills outcry, the supercar outcry, and allows them to introduce more and more revenue raising ventures all in the name of road safety.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Couldn’t have said it any better myself.

Take any accident, give the driver an intelligence injection, wind back the clock and the accident simply wouldn't happen. There is only one ultimate cause of accidents (excluding such phenomena as heart attacks, strokes etc.), that being driver error, which could be for example:

- error in judging the road conditions

- error in determining a safe speed at which to travel

- error in judging whether or not they are too fatigued or intoxicated to drive

- inability to competently drive regardless of the surrounding conditions

So if the driver of the vehicle at the root of the accident is fully competent (which absolutely no one is) then an accident would never happen except in the instance of a freak of nature.

The whole speed kills debacle is exactly that. Until this country attempts educating drivers appropriately rather than taking the band-aid approach and smacking all the naughty boys on the hand after the event as a reactive strategy, then nothing will change.

To the boys in blue - please don’t take this a personal attack on yourself or your profession – but none of it makes any logical sense.

Trent.

[Velvet Glove]

never heard of national motorists association did you bother to look took me 10 seconds to find them and as far as manipulating stats,go have a look at the sa government website where it is clearly shown as to the causes of accidents.This is official government information that is gathered from the police department so its not bullsh*t so you better go get some facts and not print your opinion , but your response is just what I thought it would be full of crap

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I tried not to make this personal, but you seem to have started it, so I will finish it.

You found the NMA on the net, well congratulations, you can use the net. Like I said, they can't be too prolific as I have never heard of them. Plenty of places that lack credibility have websites....god, even I have one.

Facts my left nut ! They are statistics, which can be manipulated to suit any agenda you like. I couldnt give a rats ar*e about the 'stats' from SA, I am talking about the facts from NSW and the ACT, which I see every single day.

Lets put this whole thing in perspective. You are a volunteer ambo with no training whatsoever in accident reconstruction or investigation. I am a Police Sergeant with extensive training in all of that. Use your stats all you like, what I am telling you are facts. Speed is a primary cause of accidents. A small piece of inattention may not kill at 40km/h, but can at 160km/h. Therefore it is the speed which is the primary cause, not the inattention. Try this little test for yourself, or have a look at an accident scene where it has happened. Drive into a wall at 10km/h, then drive into it at 110km/h. What is the 'killing' factor?

The 'crap' is your ill informed knowledge and use of stats that have already been manipulated by special interest groups. For every expert you have I can find 3 that will say the contrary, but I dont need the experts. I had a chat to some ambos tonight at a prang, and these were full time professional ambos. I asked them what they thought was the major cause of car accidents. Their answer....they said they wouldnt know as it wasnt their job to find out, they just cleaned up the aftermath.

As I have said before, I have the ultimate respect for people who volunteer their time to help others, and I wish more did it. The problem I have is simple. I dont tell you that you are wrong in your area of expertise, so dont tell me I'm wrong in mine. If you honestly rely on stats that say that less than 1% of prangs then you do need your head read.

And finally, straight from the SA Govt website:

"Excessive speed has been found to be an important factor in approximately 20% of fatal crashes in Australia. However it has been argued that such figures are likely to under-estimate the role of speed in crashes.

Practically all significant safety effects of road traffic depend on driving speeds"

Actually go into the SA Govt and read the whole thing, not just what the NMA (??) selectively decides. I am not directing any of this at you personally, but have had enough of you relying on rubbish and innuendo

[Velvet Glove]

And, straight from the NMA's website:

"However we do not believe in harsh punishment for 'speeding' drivers who are driving at a reasonable and prudent speed which exceeds a speed limit as a result of the limit being unreasonably low. This only results in a profit for the government and a waste of police resources which could be used to improve safety. "

Very responsible, they advocate 'reasonable' speeding if you dont like the limit. Yes, they have a website, but I have never heard of them so their lobbying power must be nigh on non-existant.

Dont bother replying, I am retreating to my cave for a while now

[sixfan]

:lol: Been missing you VG!!

What started as a pretty amusing satirical jibe (at no-body in particular) has turned into VG vs whoever...(again )

Core agrument "I know more than you and I don't need facts"

Backup supposition "You don't know as much as me therefore your wrong"

Closing statement "Screw you guys...I'm going home..."

Come on VG you're not fooling anyone. You LOVE it don't you! :lol: :lol:

[toca_rop]

Now VG I will type this slowly so perhaps you can follow,and please read all of it as I guess you must skip sentences

Speed is a factor in ALL crashes,the faster you go the more serious the crash I have at no time stated otherwise

The so called crap I have been refering to is a compilation of data collected for the govt from actual police crash reports ,this information includes the time of day crashes occur, the day of the week ,wheather conditions ,road conditions,number of casualties involved in accidents,number of fatalaties,crashes involving pedestrians,what speed zone crashes occur in,type of vehicle,age of occupants,sex of occupants,crashes by apparent error,etc etc so all the info collected by POLICE from an accident.There is no manipulation of statistics it is plainly written in black and white for all to see and perhaps even you might understand it.It also shows very clearly that in the 38000+ reported crashes less than 1% were caused primarily by speed .The same trends generally occur in each state,as for the NMA I dont agree with everything they say but you said you never heard of them well now you have, by the way there spokesperson has been on the 7.30 report on the ABC, I guees you were out that night.You seem to me to be one of those I know everything and have been there and done that what I say goes im right and your wrong sort of people.I now await your stupid reply with dumb examples in an effort to prove me wrong.

[Honest Gaza]

VG....I know you are alive, cause you have responded to SOME of the issues mentioned here. Again, I would like your view, as a Policeman, on the effectiveness of Speed Cameras.

I am not arguing the point about whether or not a speeding motorist should be fined....just the validity of whether they are achieving the result of preventing speeding as much as more police on the road would achieve.