I think I found Typhoons auto

[bdennis]

Play nice...

Now I will take my Modorator hat off...

IMHO Ford do the research and then engineer things to the enth degree and then put it into production and we (the customer) end up with a far superior product. They never "seem" to rush somehting to market. (BA brakes and diff clunk excluded)

Ie. IRS on the AU. It was streets ahead of brand x and is still better then that on the VZ and we have the next generation in the BA. Id rather a well engineered Ford and brand X that is rushed to market.

[Venom XR6]

Exactly. Look at the EA as a prime example. It was rushed onto the market after Project Capricorn was cancelled and was released 6 months before it was ready, and look at all the quality problems they had. The suspension sagged and once summer came round most of them overheated.

For those who don't know Project Capricorn was supposed to replace the XF and it was to be a rebodied and stretched version of the Mazda 929 complete with front wheel drive. Thank god that didn't happen, it would have been corporate suicide. It still amazes me how close it actually came to fruition.

Edited 19/10/04 10:53 AM by Venom XR6

[Paranormal]

Hey I've got an EA in pretty good nic, will swap for a MAkka Shaker

[Phido]

I have been involved in a lot of development programs and some things take at least 2-3 years from hand made protypes to production.

I understand that, but isn't Fords 6 speed the one designed by ZF and previously used on atleast a dozen diffrent types of cars? If this is the case, they could have purchased the box brand new way back when (what? AUI release?) and started developement no less than 6 or 7 years ago. Certainly during BA development.

Its not like they didn't know eventually the 4 speed was not going to cut it anymore. These things have been known for ages (almost a decade) by people outside of Ford, even outside of the industry.

After all we are talking just about a gearbox (of proven design) and not a entire platform. Same box as jaguar has been using for some time in the simular powerful, rwd, sedans.

I doubt the territory is the reason for the delay either. Ford Australia may not have a great deal of income, but Ford USA is (or used to be) rolling in the stuff. The plant won't come online until mid 2005 (and its in the USA not here). While Ford OZ might have been busy with the Territory, it seems like we are infact waiting on the USA.

So while Ford HQ is happy for jag to source boxes directly from ZF, it seems Ford isn't happy for Ford OZ to do that (even though theres no real alternative and it will fall behind the game until the plant is ready) even if it was just for the Typhoon, ghia and fairlane/LTD (maybe 500 boxes) which customers would readly pay the additional cost for (these are customers for whom a $3 or $4k 6 speed auto option would honey).

It harks back to the old EA days with 3 speed auto when everyone else had 4 speeds (even electronic 4 speeds too, even CVT boxes were popping up back then or atleast on the horizon). Eventually Ford did get the 4 speed auto, not before it lost COTY, copped a whole bunch of bad press etc. It was a sorry tired box that should have stayed in the 70's. The fact we are still essentially using the same box (slightly updated with a extra ratio) is even more of a suprise.

I do think Ford is going to have one nice transmission when it arrives, it just suxs its not here now.. I can understand the logic if we were waiting on finishing of some durability testing or something, but it appears the only reason we are waiting is for the ford factory to get up and running, but if Ford OZ could source it from somewhere else (like ZF directly) and supply it now, that I feel would be a better option.

Anyone know if/when the territory gets the six speed? (assuming it is cause the ZF box is avalible in 4wd). I also guess when it does, the turbo terri won't be too far behind..

[Venom XR6]

I'm sure cost is the reason why Ford would get it from the US rather than ZF directly. Buying from Ford would make it cheaper, as would manufacturing costs. The ZF auto is quite an expensive piece of gear.

I'd assume the Territory will be upgraded around the same time as Falcon does as they share engines, transmissions etc. Ford won't be building 2 different specs of engine.

[XR6_ED]

CVT anyone :headhurt:

[Phido]

Thing is Ford in the US is *ALREADY* using the 6 speed auto in some vechicals. They are already buying it from ZF. For the Navigator.

So its all bullshiet. I belive Ford could stick the ZF 6 speed in the Fairmont Ghia, Fairlane, LTD, Territory Ghia, GT-P and Typhoon, as a cost option if it wished, today.

It wouldn't be rushed, it wouldn't cost alot either.

Instead we have to make do with a fairly cruddy 4 speed when everyone has a 5 speed, or be forced to offer cars with *NO* automatic.

[Venom XR6]

Do you realise how much the Lincoln Navigator costs. Wouldn't leave much change from 100k if it was sold here.

If its still being tested how could they just throw it in any Falcon now.

[Phido]

Do you realise how much the Lincoln Navigator costs.

Oh, in converted $'s about $67,792.49. But then again, it cost about that much when it had the 4 speed auto, so I don't think that much of the sticker price is made up of the six speed. Plus its a US vechical, which means you can proberly get it on 0% financing and knock $5,000 off the price to get the real street price.

Your right, its outragous, how can a such a cheap truck get such a fantastic gearbox!

Of course if it was sold here, you would have to convert it to RHD, then apply aussie profit margins, hedge your currency, handle training of staff and inventory of parts, it would proberly cost $150,000+ aud.

Navigator runs the same 5.4L SOHC 24 valve V8 as would Fairmont Ghia, Fairlane G220 and LTD. Oh look at those Oz cars even cost simular money, plus OZ cars have much, much fatter margins on them.

Plus Fairmont Ghia, Fairlane G220 and LTD are certainly cars that need a massive boost right now, as they are langishing right down the very bottom of the sales charts.

Funny how in the USA, they can afford to put the transmission in a $50-60k aud SUV, but we can't afford to place the same drive train into a top of the line $70 or $80k car/SUV.

If its still being tested how could they just throw it in any Falcon now.

Is it still being tested? Gee, they must be pretty slow, Ford struck the deal with ZF what, ~5 years ago (jags have had it for a while now), it was then that Ford OZ knew exactly what type of gearbox it was going to get. The exact same powertrain is now in the Navigator. Hell Ford managed to develop it for the Navigator (AWD and RWD) in a fairly short space of time during the last Navigator facelift (hey it even got IRS!).

What needs to be tested? The 5.4 with the trans is already a production reality! Surely its a simple matter of running test miles in a falcon and signing off on the deal. All engine calibration has already been done, year(s) ago.

I don't buy this talk of its still in development. Its in development because Ford doesn't see a need to give it to us yet. It will be in "development" right up and past when it goes into production.

But maybe your right, from what I hear the 6 speed manual is still in "development" and Ford is having problems and issues.

[turbo4wd]

The new 6speed manual sounds great to me. With that much torque its not as if you have to change gears much anyhow if you dont wont to

If your wife cant drive a manual - teach her!

For drag racing is it really a big deal for a street car? - I thought it was only once your down to low 11's that having an auto starts to be much of an advantage? I have seen plenty of cars still using manuals with clutches into the 9's.