CAR ECU's

[obrut6]

Great post bugeyedcreepy,this will give the ls1 boys something to fear !LOL :lol:

[bcl]

bugeyes,

No problems.

That does sound very impressive, and if it lives up to it's promise it will be a major step forward, and I would expect it to dominate the market.

Is this a replacement ecu, and not just a map change?

thanks,

Brian

It's a Handcontroller which plugs into the standard ECU and uploads it's settings and obviously you can store it for safe keeping, you then go tweaking a bunch of things before reflashing the ECU with the new settings. Incidentally you will also be able to switch the Factory ECU into diagnostic mode view and clear the fault codes just like the Ford Workshops do.

People seem to be mis-understanding this thing, it's a method of reprogramming your Factory ECU as you see fit, from what I was told, you'd be able to set your boost to 200psi, RPM Cutout to 20,000RPM, reverse your camtimings and change your top speed cutoff to 600Kph.

In short, you are supposed to be able to adjust ANY setting you want to. (well actually they reckon they'll implement safeties to prevent our own inbuilt stupidiy we have installed at birth from doing such incredibly off the beaten track things to it but it's theoretically possible).

OK, I have a Power FC replacement ecu in my Sti, and I have a hand controller also, With that I can change the 20x20 map points for fuel and timing, change rev limit, even injectors very easily etc etc

So I understand what your saying.

What you are doing is changing parameter values that are inputs to the software, not the actual software.

So you can change the cam timing values.

My point is that there is a factory cam timing problem/issue with the existing factory software …. That is, you can’t change the exhaust and inlet cams independently of each other with the factory software. The software controls them so that they operate in tandem.

That software design limitation has been addressed with the Typhoon, and I believe that is one of the major reasons why the Typhoon is able to bring in more torque at a lower rev level. Using the Motec I can operate the exhaust and inlet cams independently.

Also, as handy as the hand controller is (even better if you provide tracer maps and peak value storage), for tuning, storing, uploading and downloading maps a PC interface is far more useful.

Brian

[cuspub]

Bugeyedcreepy.

It will - for everyone's sake - be brilliant once an edit system is available for the Ford ECU.

As is the case with the LS1 whereby the tuning of this particular engine genre (in common with the US built V6 and even 4 cylinder engines) is catered for by LS1 Edit (and now a vastly superior tuning tool called VCM Suite), both of which are not in fact real time tuning tools.

This said, with the advancements of VCM Suite, finite tuning is relatively easily achieved and the results can and often are nothing short of stunning.

As you suggest Bug, the design of these tuning tools means that a tuner (whether home or Pro) can adjust virtually every factory parameter to cater for such things as ignition, fuel, limiters, and everything else you can think off, providing the ability to cater for a myriad of modifications ranging from compression to cam to head and even super or turbocharging.

I'm sure everyone is looking forward to seeing this new product.

Greg Brindley.

[bugeyedcreepy]

OK, I have a Power FC replacement ecu in my Sti, and I have a hand controller also, With that I can change the 20x20 map points for fuel and timing, change rev limit, even injectors very easily etc etc

So I understand what your saying.

What you are doing is changing parameter values that are inputs to the software, not the actual software.

So you can change the cam timing values.

My point is that there is a factory cam timing problem/issue with the existing factory software …. That is, you can’t change the exhaust and inlet cams independently of each other with the factory software. The software controls them so that they operate in tandem.

That software design limitation has been addressed with the Typhoon, and I believe that is one of the major reasons why the Typhoon is able to bring in more torque at a lower rev level. Using the Motec I can operate the exhaust and inlet cams independently.

Also, as handy as the hand controller is (even better if you provide tracer maps and peak value storage), for tuning, storing, uploading and downloading maps a PC interface is far more useful.

Brian

Well, I haven't done that much research on the Typhoon and didn't know about the individually variable cam thing. I was led to believe that the ECU could probably be updated with the appropriate flash to give it that capability but I guess the loom and existing mechanical setup would need to be in place to make it possible. If it is a software only thing then the flash upgrade should take care of it. If the Motec unit uses the existing setup to control them independently then it will be a simple case of upgrading the flash to suit. Another thing, if the individual control capability is already there in the hardware then the ECU may very well be able to do it already, it's just that it wasn't told to. Keep in mind that until that Yankee mob reverse-engineered Ford's EEC-V system, nobody was privvy to anything Ford's ECU's were capable of. Because the Ford Dealership reflashes generally update both maps and the software that manages it, the LS1 Style Handcontroller will probably do it too. The hand controller is not really the same as the one for your STi since the LS1Edit system we'll get for the BA is actually more of an Independent Diagnostic Station that interfaces with the Factory ECU and "co-operates" with it to negotiate updates and retreieve diagnostic codes and such. The Controller you have for the STi (I could be wrong here)would usually be just a frontend to the ECU that allows you to talk to it directly. I'd be right if your hand controller doesn't do anything until you connect it to the ECU.

As for the PC Thing, that may be too good to be true. From what I found out, I think due to marketing reasons moreso than other reasons, I doubt the PC Connectivity will be a priority.

Anyway, I'm curious about all this now so I'll find out what I can tomorrow.

bugeyes

[bcl]

bugeyes,

Just a bit more background.

An autospeed article (The XR6 Turbo According to Ford –Part Two 22/9/03) had the following.

Autospeed Question:

The new DOHC Ford 4.0 six incorporates dual VCT where the inlet and exhaust cam is phased in tandem - why aren't they adjusted individually to allow changing of valve overlap?

Answer from Gordon Barfield of Ford:

"It's actually technology limited. We'd have to up the capacity of the engine management module - which is already very powerful - and we'd then have to invest a lot of mapping time. All the software that you require to throw the cams independently at any point in time triples or quadruples the mapping task - even as it is, it's a horrendous task. Look, I'm sure it'll happen in the future, but it's a massive task from an engine management point of view. As it is, the XR6 Turbo engine has its own unique VCT mapping, which was determined by trial and error on a dynamometer."

Autospeed reference is http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1904/article.html

I hope this helps.

Brian

[Macktheknife]

Just jesting previously about the SU's (They were a real bas*ard to tune actually)

This is very interesting information. This type of technology advancement in after market tuning will allow the T to be exploited to its maximum potential. Of particular interest will be how powerful but tractable this package may eventually be.

Though I dont pretend a comprehension of the intricacies of current ECU managment, the results will be more than understandable.

More power to your arms fella's.

[bcl]

bugeyes,

I knew I had read something about the cam timing in the Typhoon press releases.

Ref http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_...ts/melb04_1.htm

Here's the pertinent information.

The increase in power and torque over the Ford XR6 Turbo engine has been achieved through maximising the efficiency of cooling and induction processes of the engine.

It features a 50 per cent larger air-to-air intercooler and a dual air intake system that significantly reduces intake pressure into the turbo's compressor, therefore allowing it work more effectively.

The electronic engine management system has also been modified, with the variable camshaft timing now allowing each camshaft to be adjusted independently rather than simultaneously.

This has given the engine an increase in off-boost torque at low engine speeds, while still maintaining the engine’s ability to run on 95 RON octane fuel. FPV's engineers have also fitted high-strength conrods, heavy-duty valve springs and an oil-to-water oil cooler to handle the increased loads offered by the extra power and torque.

I don't know if this revised software will be available for all XR6T's, or kept just for the fpv Typhoon, and as I have questioned, whether it will be backwards compatible to the current model.

Brian

[macka'sxr6t]

I have made some inquiries about a possible motec conversion. I might of mis-understood the answer, but I'm sure I was told that the motec could provide the operation of independent cam control. Would'nt that mean that the hardware is already on our motors.

[xlr8ed]

great reading guys..my view is motec is a proven product for complete engine management of big horsepower engines and(user friendly) and the standard ECU for the BA1 is unchartered waters, and its only a guess as to how well it will work,how reliable it is,or what its limits will be....

jeff

[bcl]

Would'nt that mean that the hardware is already on our motors.

Exactly.

Put simply....

The hardware is there.

The software is not there.

Apply the right software and you have it!

Brian