Possible options for Geea.

[geea]

Well today was a real interesting day. Before I start I want to let everyone know that I'm not promoting any products, just making observations. As everyone knows I have the Xede piggyback chip from Chiptorque and have had my mods done at the Horsepower Factory (Amberley Auto's) in Melbourne.

With all my mods I have done extensive research and this has involved talking to Lachlan from Chiptorque and I have talked and visited Peter from APS. I have also talked, either in person or via email or PM with alot of people on this site. Either trying to find out information or shaing what I already know. I have also talked with half the transmission places in Melbourne aswell as most of the other tuning houses. I have also spoken to Cuspub a few times both in person (Geelong all Ford day) and via phone/pm. I thought it was about time that I had a chat with Simon from Nizpro. The reason I thought this was I believe that for my car to go any further I will need to strengthen the internals. This is going to be fairly costly and needs alot of research.

I got to Simon's factory just after 10am, I saw a Ferrari in the enterance, having some sort of turbo installed I believe. Great first impression I might add. Simon's setup is nowhere near as big as Peters, but it is equally impressive. As I was walking through I was able to see through adoor that had been left open. I can't say any details (I think they know where I live), but , bloody hell it was truely amazing. Maybe Cuspub can elaborate abit more when he is able.

I was shown a rod that was bent and also saw the rod that they replace them with. The difference was huge. Simon ran my car up on the dyno, it had a lower reading than the Amberley dyno which was slightly dissapointing but still good. I know with the times my car is running that it has good power relative to other turbos. He told me that my car internals should be fine at this level. He showed me a lot of other graphs of different turbo's. I saw an old one of BCL's and also turbo6. On Simons dyno my car only made 250rwkw's. I believe that alot of this was due to the intake temp being high. On my power runs the intake temp got to as high as 65C, and this was on a cold Melbourne winter morning. A sign on the way said 9C. I think with the cold air in Melbourne at the moment that my car would have more rwkw's driving on the strip at 180-200kmph with the cold air rushing through everywhere. After seeing the results and talking to Simon I think that come hot summer days my car will be alot slower than it is at the moment.

I also saw the boost levels of various cars and with the Nizpro intake system they seem to be able to run less boost to get better rwkw's. This included my car and other Nizpro and APS cars. I don't think that it has as big an impact in winter but come summer I believe that the cars with the bigger intercoolers will be able to maintain their power while the cars with factory intercoolers will struggle with the heat.

In my opinion the cars with any of the Nizpro kits (they all come with intercoolers) or the APS III cars will fare better with the heat. Mind you the Nizpro II comes in at $8500ish and the APS III with valve springs $10700ish. I used these two as after a bit of research on various threads they seem to be the closest in power outputs.

As a comparison on the Nizpro dyno. My car has 250rwkw's @11psi the Nizpro II car had 305rwkw's @11psi. I think the APS II car from one of the auto speed articles had 250-260rwkw's @14-15psi. This I believe would mainly be due to the Nizpro kit having the bigger intercooler.

Maybe a few of the APS guys that have gone from the II to the III could comment on how the car was different in the heat.

So what am I going to do???

At the moment Rob and Ian (Amberley) are working on a bigger intercooler for the "T". Rob is also doing some reseach on internals . He feels that the car is close to its limits. Last ime I spoke to him he was leaning towards billet rods and forged pistons, thoughts guys??

I feel that my auto is strong enough to take what ever I throw at it. I just need to decide how much I'm going to throw. I'm thinking at this stage that strengthening the internals and a bigger intercooler could be enough. If I can get 300rwkw's that will run all day no matter the temp that I'd be happy.

I'm also looking at some better brakes and suspension.

I feel that this post can add alot if we do it right. Lets not critisize any products. If we can talk about intake tmp and internals and keep it friendly it should be a good thread.

Geea.

[TURBO4LT]

Nice post geea, I can only comment on my car with the aps kit , I think you will like the larger intercooler (whichever brand you choose) it just seems to make the car so consistant in diffrent temps . I noticed with the standard one it would drop off after a few hard runs but with the larger cooler it dosnt seem to get any heat sink. As for boost levels im on 15psi for 330rwkws run on two diffrent dynos with a diffrence of 1rwkw between the two.

frank

[geea]

I have another question after today. I noticed that Simon plugged into the Ford cpu and was able to have live telementary. Is this purely a Nizpro thing or would it be possible for any of us with the right connection and a laptop with the right software to do this and watch whats going on?

If it is possible what would it cost for the connection and softyware?

Geea.

[ms700]

I have another question after today. I noticed that Simon plugged into the Ford cpu and was able to have live telementary. Is this purely a Nizpro thing or would it be possible for any of us with the right connection and a laptop with the right software to do this and watch whats going on?

If it is possible what would it cost for the connection and softyware?

Geea.

Can you ring Simon and ask him?

That sounds tasty...

[Guest LOK@ChipTorque]

At the moment Geea, it only comes with a dyno attached. I've been trying to get the boys to separate it but not yet. I expect there'll be various options in this regard in the next couple of years but none that I know of in the short term.

Lachlan

[turb06]

Great post Geea, I think your car will definatley love you more when you give it a bigger intercooler, as for the pstons though, have they ever been an issue with the T?

[geea]

Great post Geea, I think your car will definatley love you more when you give it a bigger intercooler, as for the pstons though, have they ever been an issue with the T?

I haven't actually heard of anyone having problems with pistons. I'm ready to be corrected on that though.

I think when most tuners go to the trouble and expense of replacing rods they also replace the pistons at the same time. At least I think that's the reason.

Maybe an actual tuner can answer with facts rather than me speculating.

Geea.

[ducatijb]

Good post Craig...I am having a bigger intercooler put in at the moment...will let you know what its like tomorrow..

[PASHEN]

Craig, great post. I love the way you love that car of yours man!

With regards to the larger intercooler, I reckon its definately the way to go. I went with a big arse intercooler when I went to Phase III from Phase II in the middle of summer.....The difference was amazing and there was almost zero impact on performance in the heat compared to the cool mornings.

I dont know if rods should be your priority at the power levels you are talking about. You say your auto can handle anything you throw at it.....but giving it heaps and dragging regularly at these increased power levels will put your box under a whole new level of stress.

300 rwkw will make you smile though...

[bcl]

Good post Geea,

In regard to pistons, in my case I specifically requested they be replaced, as I wanted the future capability of running much higher boost pressures, and to add an extra safety margin. Nizpro were more concerned about rods, and based on broken rods that have appeared over the last 2 months, that concern appears justified.

So pistons won’t necessarily be replaced, especially if they are deemed good enough, and also because of the extra cost.

In terms of the DynoLogic dyno that Simon has, most people probably don’t know that Simon is co-owner of the DynoLogic dyno business.

The autospeed articles http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1646/article.html and http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1684/article.html are a worthwhile read.

So it’s not just the case that Simon uses that dyno, he fully understands it because he’s involved in dyno development. That gives him a definite tuning advantage.

I found the data logging capabilities and software overlay capabilities to compare multiple cars (up to 6 cars) very impressive. For example, Simon overlaid the torque graph of 6-litre Late model camira and my car to show where I had the torque advantage. He could have overlayed your logged figures with my car from last December, with power, torque, air & oil temps, boost etc.

Yes, ODB2 interfacing has been developed, where Simon was able to collect data from the ecu and the dyno to compare and utilize the data for tuning purposes.

In terms of Intercooler efficiency, Simon’s dyno software will log air temps, so he can evaluate and log the effectiveness of different intercoolers.

Geea, what you have found with regard to the limitations of the factory IC has been known for a while. Nizpro have always argued that changing the intercooler is a higher priority than changing the exhaust. That is why the even the base Nizpro kits include a larger intercooler. Spending around $8k for a Nizpro Stage 2 (I’d add a fuel pump) you can take the power up to around 300-320rwkw, as a number of people have already done. IMHO, I think this is the best option available on the market, when you look at the overall context of the issues people currently are having, especially with regard to people now chasing larger intercoolers. Even those who apply a larger IC to say an APS Stage 2 (or equivalent system), still end up with the very inefficient factory plumping, which even the base Nizpro kit removes.

Of course I’ll be going back to Simon for my next major upgrade.

Brian