420 RWKW with standard engine internals?

[Falchoon]

Well it looks like you got your answer, a stock XR6T motor can make 420kw. For at least 10.98 seconds. You didn't ask about longevity, just power.

Just like to know everyone's thoughts (especially the known engine tuners on here) regarding the APS Stage III + ACHIEVING 420RWKW with completely stock engine internals & running on 98 RON PUMP FUEL!!!!!!!!!

Common sense would tell you that components such as conrods and pistons (probably other stuff as well) would need to be upgraded to ensure the motor stays in one piece for any length of time.

Places like APS/Nizpro/C&V have the resources and money to experiment with high power outputs and not worry too much if they blow a motor.

Ford aren't putting stronger conrods in the Typhoon just because they like spending money.

[P.S.I]

Falchoon makes an excellent point. Why if the F6 engine is producing 270Kw & 550Nm did Ford decide that beefier rods were required ? Probably because they need the engine to survive 3yrs/100,000km of abuse.

If you want a modified engine to have a service life similar to what the Factory strive for the get stronger rods.

Ford may view block integrity as a small issue, hence the problems people like BCL experienced, but if they have gone to the trouble of upgrading the rods for the F6 they must be of the opinion that they are required.

Just My humble opinion and not a APS bash

Cheers

PSI

[aps]

I am recommending stronger con rods for safety reasons only............have a look at the C and V XR6T engine............over 400 RWkW's and has run a 10.98 pass (quickest in Australia) and guess what.............stock con rods and pistons. These are the facts not speculation.

Regards

Peter

Hey Peter,

Thanks for the "only for SAFETY recommendation regarding upgrading the rods" and also reminding me the rods lasted the 10.98 second distance in the C&V car ....

No problem at all .............hope this info helps..........see I can actually speak about this from practical experience............which is more than you can............see action speaks louder than words. :lol:

Regards

Peter

[aps]

Interesting banter guys.

Peter, I suspect that you base your opinion on rod integrity because you have never had a problem with them, therefore it is quite a logical thought to suggest that there is not need to change then.

Unfortunately Nizpro has had to rebuild quite a number of engines for the simple reason that rods either bend or let go with power levels  - in some cases - of no more than around 300 rwkw. 

Greg that's correct we have never seen one con rod failure to date. Of course it would be easy to fail a con rod if the engine is turned above the stock RPM limit.

Aps has many Phase III customer cars in service and to date not one customer has experienced a con rod failure of any type.

Now I am not saying that there is not a point where the stock con rod will need replacing.............though it's my belief that this point is well above 330 RWkW"s.

Of course bad tuning can wipe out a piston or big end bearing (and to date we have not experienced this problem) and of course it's always possible to get a low spec con rod in a mass production engine, fact is we have not seen one example yet.

If customers want to install stronger con rods...well I don't have a problem with that....... though APS does not want the customer to go to unnecessary expense unless it's absolutely mandatory.

Peter

APS

[TURBO4LT]

APS & NIZPRO

So what would be a safe limit for the standard Rods if the revs were kept to standard rev limit for street use ???

Thanks Frank

[ducatijb]

You'll probably find out next stage Frank :lol:

[TURBO4LT]

:lol: I hope I dont find out the hard way

[aps]

:lol: I hope I dont find out the hard way

Don't worry Frank APS has conducted a massive amount of durability testing on the T engine and, as long as there is not a faulty engine component and you don't turn the engine quicker than the stock RPM limit and you don't exceed 330RWkW's...........the chance of failing a stoock con rod is very remote. :lol:

That's not to say that stronger con rods are a waste of money though for power levels under 330RWkW's. I honestly believe it's a bit of an overkill, but hey if you have the spare cash APS has the best con rods that money can buy in stock.

Peter

APS

Edited 02/07/04 04:02 AM by aps

[TURBO4LT]

Thanks Peter

[cuspub]

APS & NIZPRO

So what would be a safe limit for the standard Rods if the revs were kept to standard rev limit for street use ???

Thanks Frank

Hi Frank. Thanks for the question; suffice it to say that I believe I have covered this in an earlier post whereby we can show you bent rods from an engine developing 'only' 300 rwkw.

This said, we all know that there will be the occasional 'lemon' out there, and for all intents and purposes we at Nizpro believe that you are starting to really push the envelope at around the 320kw mark.

As to durability testing, I wonder if any other aftermarket supplier (specifically relating to the XR6 Turbo) has had several XR6 Turbo engines on their own in-house dyno for days and weeks on end performing genuine endurance testing: Factory tests typically involve a 200 hour torture test, something that simply can't be duplicated on anything other than an advanced electronically controlled engine dynamometer.

Taking RPM Frank, that’s a great question. To date the only XR6 engine Nizpro has run over the factory rev limit is an early development mule whereby engine internal changes consisted of balancing, blueprinting, billet rods, heavy-duty valve springs, and stock pistons. It spun to 7500rpm no problems with over 20 psi of boost.

All of the engines I related to in my earlier post all ran at the factory rev limit!

Greg Brindley.