DIFF CLUNK - Combined Approach

[tab]

I hope they fix it soon enough, ours hasn't got this problem with 14 000km on the clock, but I seriously hope they fix it for you all. It seems all that's been said lately is talk about how crappy the diff is, and not enough "buy a turbo, I love mine".

Sorry Glenn, I will stand up proud and say it -

"buy a turbo, I love mine"

Regardless of the gripes, I don't regret buying the T - but that still doesn't make it right.

Trent.

[GlennAUII]

Sorry Glenn, I will stand up proud and say it -

"buy a turbo, I love mine"

wahoo!

[ZAP]

dsan and For all the people who do not know what the clunk n' whine problem is:

This is what mine does, others may be different.

Changing gear under acceloration you hear a thump in the rear of the car. Mine is especially noticable when I am in 1st gear coasting along in traffic and I put the clutch in, I hear a thunk or clunk from the rear. It does not happen every time but I can make it happen 2 out of 10 times. Sometimes I hear it on the 3 to 4 change uynder moderate throttle. I feel with my car it is not backlash. Backlash is freeplay in the driveline and wil clunk all the time when pumping the throttle on and off. It can sound like a *beep* or clunk eachtime the drive line loads or unloads. My car also clunks when I engage reverse and slowly reverse.

For all the Auto drivers or people who are not sure, turn the radio off and put the windows up. In an auto when slowing down change down gears and also try pumping the throttle in a low gear (1st or 2nd). You may be shocked to find that you also suffer the same problems and just not noticed it.

Whine is a totally different matter and can be caused by several problems. The most common is a failure to match the gearing propperly within the crownwheel and pinion gears. This can be allignment of machining faults. The sound is like a whine or whirr at certain speeds. You can hear the volume increase and decrease as the speed of the car changes. If you have ever been in a taxi and heard the diff, this is an extreame of the sound. Bearings and incorrect diff oil can also be a cause.

The end result for both problems is IT SHOULD ONLY HAPPEN IN A TAXI WITH 300,000+km ON THE CLOCK, NOT A BRAND NEW CAR....LISTEN FORD, RESPECT YOUR CUSTOMERS

[jetute]

Well thought-out post Zap!

I was thinking more "evolution rather than revolution" by giving Ford and FPV representatives the opportunity to publicly respond to the quality and post-sales servicing issues. In essence, fitting this into Zap's sequence, our letter could be Step 0.

Zap's Step 1 is an ultimatum, and if enough people want to take this more aggressive line, go for it.

However, from a "game theory" point of view (much of my published research and consultancies involve real-life applications of "game theory"), first-step negotiation ultimatums may hinder the possibility of "win-win" outcomes. In short, from a greater good perspective, it is useful to give opportunities for parties in any negotiation to move towards "win-win" outcomes at every step of the negotiation process. Whether they choose to move towards "win-win" outcomes is their choice, though at least you give them that opportunity at every stage.

Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

Super post Zap... I do agree with Dr Z that we could start with step 0 and ask Ford to respond to our issue publicly ..In saying this I was at the dealer and we spoke about the clunk issue and instead of getting the that's normal response, I was told that they are looking into it.... what does this mean??I don't know. Does it mean they now deem it a problem?? maybe.

Our approach needs to be carefully planned out.... This could now be a starting point where we can all post what we think should be on the letter or what we would like to be on the letter. So start posting away. Please think about your posts and make all points constructive and something that you think Ford can respond to.

They will not respond to threats and this will make any attempt to get a win-win outcome extremely difficult. Media as a tool should be ruled out from word go as Ford would deem this a threat.

I am confident that Ford will respond to a group letter. This response could well be negative which will put us back at square one.

I also want add that fordxr6.turbo.com has nothing to do with our problem and that this is only a place where we come to share the good and bad about our cars. Luckily for us we can now see that we are not alone in our problems. But please do not drag the name of this site into any correspondece that we have with ford.

Start posting away

[ZAP]

I am hoping that Ford will read this thread and either PM us or respond here.

I decided to take the car just now to a carpark that was nice and wide and empty.

I did some light takeoffs and then full lock turns. With the windows up I could get clunking everytime while putting the clutch in and out. It was coming from the rear end. I then thought I would open the door and idle around on full lock and dip the clutch (in/out) I could hear the clunking but it sounded like it was the gearbox or front unijoint WTF?

I read somewhere that the insulation is a bit lacking in the rear of the car, I can only guess that with all the ICC and center console would provide great sound insulation around the gearbox.

It is possible that the sound is traveling up the prop shaft and appears from the back of the car.

I am seriously considering strapping my video camera under the car to see and hear what is going on.

If the people with manuals that have the clunk can find a nice open space and put their car on full lock and idle around in circles while putting the clutch in and out.

If you can hear the noise from under your seat (the front) the problem is not the diff.

I am not saying that this IS the problem only that it is what I have found on my car with 776km on the clock.

It is worth doing some R & D to see if we are all having the same problem.

[Henry]

I have had the clunk from day 1, but most of the time I can avoid it by judicious use of the throttle.

I also have the diff whine at 95 - 100kmh.

It would be nice to get these problems fixed, so I will be glad to join the party.

[HSE2]

HSE2,

Good suggestion, but I think that Ford will respond better to a chance to see that this problem is widespread and that we expect a solution. Involving media at the moment may only serve to drive Ford into a corner and not give us the amicable result that I think both parties want.

The problem is that Ford do know how wide spread this problem is. They have done for the last half a decade. The problem is that the general public doesn’t know. The problem is that perspective buyers don't know and as such Ford haven't been hurt enough to really get a fix in place.

In my opinion Ford have had enough time to get this problem rectified. That it has continued from Au into BA is totally unacceptable.

While national exposure would cause Ford some headaches I bet it would also force a greater emphasis on making sure this problem never happens again.

The one question I would be asking of the media is why they have never commented on this defect during any appraisal? To my knowledge no comment what so ever has ever been made regarding this issue.

Are they simply better drivers or have they been negligent in pointing out this flaw to perspective consumers?

[Cobra]

I also want add that fordxr6.turbo.com has nothing to do with our problem and that this is only a place where we come to share the good and bad about our cars. Luckily for us we can now see that we are not alone in our problems. But please do not drag the name of this site into any correspondece that we have with ford.

nicely said mate, straight forward and to the point

[HSE2]

Well thought-out post Zap!

. Media as a tool should be ruled out from word go as Ford would deem this a threat.

I am confident that Ford will respond to a group letter. This response could well be negative which will put us back at square one.

With respect you are wrong. History shows that the only way the LS1 issue was addressed in this country was when a forum member sent a list of threads to both ACA and Motor mag. The site was obviously not involved as it is only a medium for expression. I haven't read it but I assume there is a disclaimer that indicates the views expressed with in are not that of the site owner and so forth. If there isn't, there sure as hell should be.

In this particular case Expensive Daewoo was forced to publicly respond to the questions being asked by the media. This approach makes sure that ignoring this problem doesn't continue. For all we know this action could very well be underway. If you didn't want the possibility of this action taking place the tread should never have been posted in public. This type of action never really addresses individual cases. All it does is make the company in question move to make an attempt to stop future occurrences. It will undoubtedly cause greater claims from people that weren't aware of the problem.

The media reads these forums and at any time could decide there is a story to run with. As an example they could have read Mondies thread on both here and FF and asked for people with similar experience to contact them. It really is that simple. You could very well open Fridays Herald sun and see this topic as reference.

In one occasion the media tracked down forum members and asked them to comment on what they had to say on the forum. You need to know that what you have already done is enough to force Fords hand. You have commented in public about an issue that you aren't happy about. You have already backed Ford into a corner. I know for a fact that anything said about FPV is read and noted. I have little doubt that Ford is the same? I know of one instance where the owner was confronted by a dealer principal after his comments were posted on a forum.

If you arte really concerned about what Ford thinks then I respectfully suggest you don’t air your view in public on any forum. You may as well taken out an ad in the Saturday Paper.

[Dr Z]

The media tends to be very careful to openly criticise the products that they review because it could lead to lesser advertising dollars from the criticised product manufacturer and/or a reluctance for the manufacturer to be accomodating to future product review requests, thereby damaging the perception of media credibility.

We know that producers and supporting media generally "put a positive spin" on products so it is more likely that general not-related-to-the-product media may be more objective in their reporting.

In case anyone is wondering where is the Ford/FPV letter, I did put it up though it was removed very quickly. Chris and his team are currently looking at it to see if it is appropriate to have on here. Since I only wanted the letter to be "information-sharing" only so that Ford and FPV could be directed to a place where all the quality control issues were collated and synthesised together, I did not see any real concerns, though I do respect this is a "grey area" in that some may perceive this site could be condoning public action against Ford and FPV.

Just for the record, I do not personally or professionally condone any public action against Ford/FPV and I fully support FordXR6Turbo.com's right to not condone it either. What I do support is that we offer Ford and FPV some guidance and direction so they can check out our concerns in one easy-to-find thread and hope they use the wealth of information on this site to re-assess their economic/engineering decisions and tolerances.

I look forward to Chris and team's decision and recommendations soon.

Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.